It's not very comforting that I work for the worst airline in history. As long as your write-ups are good legal write-ups there is nothing the company can do. I plan on carrying two pens to make sure I never run out of ink. With this all said we should have more growth coming our way than any other airline. Why would NW start compass when they have a forced labor camp called Mesaba. Why would Delta talk to Comair when the Wh-res of the industry are XJ. Like it was said in previous replys this is a HUGE blow to every ALPA pilot working today. My predicition is 9E files for bankruptcy very shortly.
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Judge blocks strike at Mesaba
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BoilerUP
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I'm amazed the judiciary can impose the RLA on labor but not on management. WTF is going on in the Minnesota legal system?!?!
I could never tell Mesaba workers to "take one for the profession"...but I've said it before: I could not afford to continue working for Mesaba as an FO under the imposed work rules & compensation that had been posted here earlier.
If this ruling stands, it sets a dangerous precedent for labor across all industries, especially in aviation. Somebody has got to put a stop to this sh!t.
I could never tell Mesaba workers to "take one for the profession"...but I've said it before: I could not afford to continue working for Mesaba as an FO under the imposed work rules & compensation that had been posted here earlier.
If this ruling stands, it sets a dangerous precedent for labor across all industries, especially in aviation. Somebody has got to put a stop to this sh!t.
kmox29
I'm open! I'm open!
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The question is:
On Thursday, when management imposes their terms, will you quit?
Or will you show up to work, fly a little slower, try and write something up at an outstation, maybe call in sick?
Only one of these solutions will have any real effect. I know I'm outside looking in, but seriously...are you really going to work under an imposed, concessionary contract?
Anyone who shows up to work after they impose their contract, have accepted their terms.
On Thursday, when management imposes their terms, will you quit?
Or will you show up to work, fly a little slower, try and write something up at an outstation, maybe call in sick?
Only one of these solutions will have any real effect. I know I'm outside looking in, but seriously...are you really going to work under an imposed, concessionary contract?
Anyone who shows up to work after they impose their contract, have accepted their terms.
wmudriver
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Terrible news. Hopefully this injunction can be appealed or just strike any way. ALPA has a ton of money in the piggy bank to pay off any kind of fines. ALPA national shouldn't just sit and watch labor get steamrolled like this.
Who is giving Judge Kishel all of the reach arounds anyway? "Hot Carl" Polad? His Cornell boyfriend, Foley?
This might have screwed 9E for some leverage in their negotiations.
Who is giving Judge Kishel all of the reach arounds anyway? "Hot Carl" Polad? His Cornell boyfriend, Foley?
This might have screwed 9E for some leverage in their negotiations.
It is now Tom W. to really show what kind of leader he is. Call the strike and spend a couple of days in jail. If he truely believes in the words he speaks then he would not only do this for XJ but for all ALPA pilots. It is time for our ALPA leadership to step up and do the right thing. If they don't want to do what's right then resign and we will elect somebody who will. I have a hard time believing they are going to send a person to Oak Park Heights the maximum security prison in MN. for calling a strike. Exercise the power we elected you to use!!
Rez O. Lewshun
Save the Profession
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Boiler-
Sound comments. If one of us or a group of us wants to go get our 79 union virgins via martyrdom by all means. That is a choice. But expecting others to do it is out of the question. Everyone has a right to pay thier house note and feed thier children without a bunch of mouths telling them to commit moral suicide via financial ruin.
Somebody? Five to ten years ago we could've voted for pilot career politicians who would support us. CAPA and ALPA PAC contributions could've helped place pro labor candidates into office.
I realize that this is boring, but it is the way we get protected so stuff like this has a harder time of going through.
Elections this Nov. 7. Do we want to vote our careers or our idealology.
We can give to CAPA or ALPA PAC anytime.
Somebody is us.
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Turtlesfly
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Rez O. Lewshun
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Dude.. calm down. Do you think your ALPA volunteers are slacking or working the issues? Do you need a communication to satisfy your emotional needs?
Yes communication is important but perhaps the next course of action is more important.
Why not call your reps and ask what you can do to help out.
Rez O. Lewshun
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Are you pilot leaders or just members that follow. ALPA Reps aren't elected and given power to conduct illegal strike. I haven't seen anyone say to TW.. call a strike and go to jail....and I'll go to jail with you....
Turtlesfly
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BoilerUP
Citation style...
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Rez, the following article from 17 Feb 97 tells me Democrats are no more friendly to labor than Republicans. Besides, Minnesota is a largely Democratic state and ALPA PAC can't prevent judges from legislating from the bench, as the judiciary has done in this instance with Mesaba and with the NWA flight attendants. Any emphasis in the article below is mine.
http://www.southcoasttoday.com/daily/02-97/02-17-97/a07bu032.htm
Presidential role in strike debated
By Dan Blake, Associated Press writer
NEW YORK -- The word "strike" doesn't conjure up such scary images to the flying public anymore.
That is the precedent set by President Clinton in ordering American Airlines pilots back to work within minutes after they declared a strike early Saturday, averting chaotic disruptions to hundreds of thousands of passengers.
If pilot negotiations at four other of the nation's biggest airlines get to the brink of a walkout, airline chiefs and passengers almost certainly will be looking to the White House to keep the planes in the air.
Mr. Clinton made a hugely popular decision by effectively removing the one potent negotiating weapon in the American pilot union's arsenal. There was little obvious sympathy for the pilots in their quest for more compensation, largely because at $120,000 a year they already are among the most highly paid professionals in the country.
But Mr. Clinton also sent a signal to all airline workers, particularly pilots, that could severely restrict their bargaining power. Encouraged by the stronger possibility of presidential interventions to prevent strikes, airline bosses now have little incentive to accept union demands.
"I think it has some implications for the industry that aren't all good," said Ron Keever, an American pilot. "Management can just sit back and let the government step in, instead of negotiating in good faith."
American pilots haven't been the only ones trying to squeeze more money out of the U.S. airline industry, which has become healthy and profitable again after years of painful losses.
Pilots at United, Northwest, Continental and USAir also are haggling over new contracts and had been keeping a close watch on the American negotiations.
The United branch of the Air Line Pilots Association, which recently turned down a 10 percent four-year pay increase proposal, warned pilots that if Mr. Clinton got in the way of an American Airlines strike, it would weaken their bargaining position.
Pilots at Continental are preparing for contract talks to start this summer and hope to get a piece of the company's profits after years of enduring lower pay relative to colleagues at other airlines.
All six of the unions at Northwest Airlines are in negotiations and looking for higher pay while the company is asking for increased productivity. At USAir, managers are trying to cut pay. The company recently offered pilots a 12.5 percent pay cut in return for a seven-year contract without layoffs.
Mr. Clinton's decision marked the first time in 30 years that a president declared an airline strike an emergency and ordered the workers back to their jobs. But he did so with the comfort of knowing that not too many union leaders were going to complain about it.
One White House aide, speaking on condition of anonymity, recalled the response from an AFL-CIO official about the possibility of presidential action. "These aren't our guys," the union rep said of the pilots. Unlike the Air Line Pilots Association, which is affiliated with the AFL-CIO, American's pilots are a splinter union known as the Allied Pilots Association.
The American pilots had even angered some in ALPA -- by far the nation's biggest airline pilot union -- suggesting ALPA members at American's turboprop sister airline, American Eagle, weren't qualified to fly jets.
To some extent, Mr. Clinton's decision to intervene was a special situation that wouldn't necessarily apply in future crises. He held in his hands the fate of holiday travel plans for many families traveling with children who got a week break from school. Making matters more ominous, the pilots had indicated repeatedly they were planning to be out for at least 30 days.
His intervention doesn't automatically mean Mr. Clinton would take the same step if the choice arises again. It's possible he might come down on the side of the labor movement that so generously supported his re-election campaign.
"I don't know that management can feel so safe," said Terry Moulton, a partner in Airline Capital Associates, a consulting firm for the airline industry. "The parties can't count on another presidential move."
Mr. Clinton's action also doesn't rule out an American pilots strike in 60 days. Under law he can't block them from striking again, although Congress has the ability to impose a settlement on the union and the company.
Ironically by some accounts, both sides were extremely close to an agreement in the hours immediately before the 12:01 a.m. Saturday strike deadline.
The Fort Worth Star-Telegram reported that as little as $28 million separated the negotiators when time ran out. The airline already has said the pre-strike disruption will cost it more than three times that much.
http://www.southcoasttoday.com/daily/02-97/02-17-97/a07bu032.htm
Presidential role in strike debated
By Dan Blake, Associated Press writer
NEW YORK -- The word "strike" doesn't conjure up such scary images to the flying public anymore.
That is the precedent set by President Clinton in ordering American Airlines pilots back to work within minutes after they declared a strike early Saturday, averting chaotic disruptions to hundreds of thousands of passengers.
If pilot negotiations at four other of the nation's biggest airlines get to the brink of a walkout, airline chiefs and passengers almost certainly will be looking to the White House to keep the planes in the air.
Mr. Clinton made a hugely popular decision by effectively removing the one potent negotiating weapon in the American pilot union's arsenal. There was little obvious sympathy for the pilots in their quest for more compensation, largely because at $120,000 a year they already are among the most highly paid professionals in the country.
But Mr. Clinton also sent a signal to all airline workers, particularly pilots, that could severely restrict their bargaining power. Encouraged by the stronger possibility of presidential interventions to prevent strikes, airline bosses now have little incentive to accept union demands.
"I think it has some implications for the industry that aren't all good," said Ron Keever, an American pilot. "Management can just sit back and let the government step in, instead of negotiating in good faith."
American pilots haven't been the only ones trying to squeeze more money out of the U.S. airline industry, which has become healthy and profitable again after years of painful losses.
Pilots at United, Northwest, Continental and USAir also are haggling over new contracts and had been keeping a close watch on the American negotiations.
The United branch of the Air Line Pilots Association, which recently turned down a 10 percent four-year pay increase proposal, warned pilots that if Mr. Clinton got in the way of an American Airlines strike, it would weaken their bargaining position.
Pilots at Continental are preparing for contract talks to start this summer and hope to get a piece of the company's profits after years of enduring lower pay relative to colleagues at other airlines.
All six of the unions at Northwest Airlines are in negotiations and looking for higher pay while the company is asking for increased productivity. At USAir, managers are trying to cut pay. The company recently offered pilots a 12.5 percent pay cut in return for a seven-year contract without layoffs.
Mr. Clinton's decision marked the first time in 30 years that a president declared an airline strike an emergency and ordered the workers back to their jobs. But he did so with the comfort of knowing that not too many union leaders were going to complain about it.
One White House aide, speaking on condition of anonymity, recalled the response from an AFL-CIO official about the possibility of presidential action. "These aren't our guys," the union rep said of the pilots. Unlike the Air Line Pilots Association, which is affiliated with the AFL-CIO, American's pilots are a splinter union known as the Allied Pilots Association.
The American pilots had even angered some in ALPA -- by far the nation's biggest airline pilot union -- suggesting ALPA members at American's turboprop sister airline, American Eagle, weren't qualified to fly jets.
To some extent, Mr. Clinton's decision to intervene was a special situation that wouldn't necessarily apply in future crises. He held in his hands the fate of holiday travel plans for many families traveling with children who got a week break from school. Making matters more ominous, the pilots had indicated repeatedly they were planning to be out for at least 30 days.
His intervention doesn't automatically mean Mr. Clinton would take the same step if the choice arises again. It's possible he might come down on the side of the labor movement that so generously supported his re-election campaign.
"I don't know that management can feel so safe," said Terry Moulton, a partner in Airline Capital Associates, a consulting firm for the airline industry. "The parties can't count on another presidential move."
Mr. Clinton's action also doesn't rule out an American pilots strike in 60 days. Under law he can't block them from striking again, although Congress has the ability to impose a settlement on the union and the company.
Ironically by some accounts, both sides were extremely close to an agreement in the hours immediately before the 12:01 a.m. Saturday strike deadline.
The Fort Worth Star-Telegram reported that as little as $28 million separated the negotiators when time ran out. The airline already has said the pre-strike disruption will cost it more than three times that much.
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Rez O. Lewshun
Save the Profession
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Boiler Up....
Not sure it is about Dems and Repubs. It is really about pro labor, pilot freindly politicans. But even so, you can't expect anyone to blindly make choices in ones favor. It sure is nice, but do any of us do what another wants just cause?
As far as Clinton and the APA... recall it was an illegal strike. (I sure hope this doesn't get hi-jacked)
Also recall what PATCO did in the early 1980's. Pilots love to talk about that, but that PATCO strike really put a sour taste in CapHills mouth. That strike did more to hurts us 25 years later than anything.
Illegal strikes don't work. Sure it feels good at the time. But do we want to make it hard for future pilots to stike just like the APA and PATCO have for us?
as far as your initial comment about ALPA-PAC. Would you rather have no support in state/fed offices. Or even worse, politicans operating against us.
Oberstar in MN is a great ally. But don't expect him to sigle handidly fix our problems
Excellent point!
Not sure it is about Dems and Repubs. It is really about pro labor, pilot freindly politicans. But even so, you can't expect anyone to blindly make choices in ones favor. It sure is nice, but do any of us do what another wants just cause?
As far as Clinton and the APA... recall it was an illegal strike. (I sure hope this doesn't get hi-jacked)
Also recall what PATCO did in the early 1980's. Pilots love to talk about that, but that PATCO strike really put a sour taste in CapHills mouth. That strike did more to hurts us 25 years later than anything.
Illegal strikes don't work. Sure it feels good at the time. But do we want to make it hard for future pilots to stike just like the APA and PATCO have for us?
as far as your initial comment about ALPA-PAC. Would you rather have no support in state/fed offices. Or even worse, politicans operating against us.
Oberstar in MN is a great ally. But don't expect him to sigle handidly fix our problems
Excellent point!
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BoilerUP
Citation style...
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And more to the point in this case...pro labor, pilot-friendly judges.
BighitterLama
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ex j-41
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Times were a little different. Yes you could still strike "eventually" but pilots were making a lot more money 10 years ago. What i would do to make $120,000 today let alone 10 years back.
What the republicans did to us is make it harder to form unions. A lot less people qualify to join today.
Just proof that goverment wants big business and will do anything to stop labor from having any kind of bargining power.
What the republicans did to us is make it harder to form unions. A lot less people qualify to join today.
Just proof that goverment wants big business and will do anything to stop labor from having any kind of bargining power.
YourPilotFriend
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