Jetblue, VA ansd Skywest benefit from ALPA.......again...

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The Colgan BUF accident is classic example of the need for representation. Colgan had recently joined ALPA just prior to the crash. With ALPA directly representing Colgan, the Colgan pilots had access to govt. Sure ALPA would have been involved somewhat, but since ALPA directly represented Colgan, ALPA was a "front man" for Colgan during the NTSB hearings, Congressional hearings and MSM media interviews.


Consider if JB, VA or OO pilots had an accident like Colgan. Who would represent the pilot group? Would the pilots have access to govt like the Colgan pilots? Access to the NTSB, Congress, FAA, DOT, and the White House?


Removing yourselves from the process and putting your fate into the hands of those who do not have a concern for you is.......... reckless.....

 

[Erlanger]

I'm quite familiar with what at-will employment means. You may want to brush up on it a bit, because you're obviously not very knowledgeable. Wrongful termination suits can certainly be successful if an employee is terminated contrary to what an established employee handbook says, because that would be considered disparity of treatment or discriminatory practice. That doesn't mean that the terms of an employee handbook or enforceable, however. If your employee handbook states that you'll receive at least 12 days off, for example, the company can change that tomorrow without any prior notice, and you'll have no recourse. In addition, at-will employees can be terminated at any time for any reason as long as discriminatory practice is not involved.

Wow! That's an incredible statement coming from a ALPA guy who previously said Skywest pilots don't have an enforceable contract. Skywest management and SAPA's signatures are indeed in our contract and it does say that this is the agreeable work rules and pay for the pilot group. The judge would see that and case closed.

Again, you are misinformed.

What no rebuttal? You're saying I made the whole thing up?

How many pilots have been furloughed from SWA, the most heavily-unionized airline in history? ZERO! Business models determine furloughs, not unions.

OK, so Southwest hasn't furloughed. Big deal as it pertains to others. Why isn't the union contributing to the business models at the other carriers?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

OK, so Southwest hasn't furloughed. Big deal as it pertains to others. Why isn't the union contributing to the business models at the other carriers?

Air Line Pilots do not run Airlines. They safely and effciently move jets from point A to B.

How isn't the union contributing to the business model? Unions want their airlines to succeed. Why would they not?

 

[PCL_128]

Wow! That's an incredible statement coming from a ALPA guy who previously said Skywest pilots don't have an enforceable contract.

SkyWest pilots don't have an enforceable contract. What you do have is federal statutes that prohibit companies from acting in a discriminatory way. If they set a policy, for example, that says employees can call in sick three times per year no questions asked, but they terminate a guy they don't like after he calls in sick twice, citing excessive absenteeism, then he has a case. It has nothing to do with having contractual rights. You just have the same rights as employees at any other company in this country.

Skywest management and SAPA's signatures are indeed in our contract and it does say that this is the agreeable work rules and pay for the pilot group. The judge would see that and case closed.

You're just flat-out wrong. That document isn't worth the paper on which it's printed. The signatures are meaningless. Call a labor attorney if you don't want to believe me.

What no rebuttal? You're saying I made the whole thing up?

Yep.

OK, so Southwest hasn't furloughed. Big deal as it pertains to others. Why isn't the union contributing to the business models at the other carriers?

Not sure what you're even asking here. As Rez said, pilots don't run airlines, managements do. Bad airline business models are created by morons with MBAs that didn't have the talent to get hired in more lucrative industries. Unions don't create bad business models.

 

[Tarzan]

Excellent..

Still not an ALPA fan....but very well said.

Now will they hear you.

These guys here? Probably not but I'll share as much as I can and to help inform pilots so they can make their choices.

I am not what you coin an ALPA cheerleader but there are good aspects and good people involved. I'd rather have the legal backing of the RLA than not. It does give us some voice with the company because they have to deal with us. That being said, I want my company to have some flexibility to still be profitable when times get rough but I also want to see some of that come back to us when times are good. Moderation seems to work much better instead taking all you can or giving up everything in a hope to secure something. Both ways don't seem to have the desired outcomes. Comair and Mesa fit both respectively and you see what is becoming of both, rather sadly for the Comair guys. (I have a had time pitying the MAG much. Most knew the sort of place they were going and saw only a quick upgrade then off to a Legacy)

I am suspicious of both company and union but somewhere in the middle lies the solution. If we both learn to work together and be inventive in how we attack these issues, an airline with a union can be successful. It just takes the right people. That's where we all come in. Involve as many as you can. Don't shut out guys Rez and PCL. Don't shut the more conservative voices. All have some validity in the aurguements (except that Marxist Mao Tsu Rez).

 

[Erlanger]

SkyWest pilots don't have an enforceable contract. What you do have is federal statutes that prohibit companies from acting in a discriminatory way. If they set a policy, for example, that says employees can call in sick three times per year no questions asked, but they terminate a guy they don't like after he calls in sick twice, citing excessive absenteeism, then he has a case. It has nothing to do with having contractual rights. You just have the same rights as employees at any other company in this country.

You're just flat-out wrong. That document isn't worth the paper on which it's printed. The signatures are meaningless. Call a labor attorney if you don't want to believe me.

For starters from Wikipedia.

Thirty-seven U.S. states (and the District of Columbia) recognize an implied contract as an exception to at-will employment. Under the implied contract exception, an employer may not fire an employee "when an implied contract is formed between an employer and employee, even though no express, written instrument regarding the employment relationship exists." Implied employment contracts are most often found when an employer's personnel policies or handbooks indicate that an employee will not be fired except for good cause or specify a process for firing. If the employer fires the employee in violation of an implied employment contract, the employer may be found liable for breach of contract.

 

[EBE]

How many pilots at Skywest just "suck it up" when they get screwed because the mechanism in place is inadequate?

A lot.

 

[PCL_128]

For starters from Wikipedia.

Thirty-seven U.S. states (and the District of Columbia) recognize an implied contract as an exception to at-will employment. Under the implied contract exception, an employer may not fire an employee "when an implied contract is formed between an employer and employee, even though no express, written instrument regarding the employment relationship exists." Implied employment contracts are most often found when an employer's personnel policies or handbooks indicate that an employee will not be fired except for good cause or specify a process for firing. If the employer fires the employee in violation of an implied employment contract, the employer may be found liable for breach of contract.

All you did was copy and paste something that I already said in as many words. What you've copied above is referring to is due process through the employee handbook, which means that terminating someone without due process would be disparity of treatment.

However, what you've copied above has nothing to do with the work rules in your employee handbook. Your work rules and rates of pay can be changed at a whim, with no recourse for you. YOU HAVE NO CONTRACT!

 

[Erlanger]

All you did was copy and paste something that I already said in as many words. What you've copied above is referring to is due process through the employee handbook, which means that terminating someone without due process would be disparity of treatment.

However, what you've copied above has nothing to do with the work rules in your employee handbook. Your work rules and rates of pay can be changed at a whim, with no recourse for you. YOU HAVE NO CONTRACT!

So if your airline files for bankruptcy your ALPA contract is still binding?

 

[Rekks Inbound]

So if your airline files for bankruptcy your ALPA contract is still binding?

Yes, It is binding UNLESS abrogated by a bankruptcy judge in an 1113C hearing.

And it is this hearing process that caused the end of pensions at UAL, USAIR, etc, not ALPA.

Peace.

Rekks

 

[IBNAV8R]

So, any advances on the part of any pilot group, whether or not they are ALPA, can be directly attributed to the works of ALPA. (those guys got a free ride)

Any degradation to any individual pilot or pilot group, whether they are ALPA or not, is NEVER the failure of ALPA. (musta been a weak MEC, apathetic pilots, biased judges, etc.)

 

[theo]

I have yet to hear a reasoned and intelligent answer as to why Skywest, JB or VA pilots don't think they need to tow the line.... just like everyone else.

If there is a good reason why, let's hear it...


This news article is a perfect example... all the haters have come on and bash ALPA, but yet they can't even address the fact that they will benefit from ALPA working to put down this bill before DeMint can put it on the floor.

So instead of reading this news article and seeing the logic as to why they need to tow the line, just like everyone else, the freeloaders would rather complain that they got disprespected by an OC member or they got thier feelings hurt on a moniker messeage board.


When you guys are ready to be professional Air Line Pilots... the door is open... ball is in your court.....

Don't call us...we will call you

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Don't call us...we will call you

Not problem.... good luck....