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Jetblue, VA ansd Skywest benefit from ALPA.......again...

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Joe,

Put your money where your mouth is. Have a backbone and at least resign from the union. Start with that and then your argument about ALPA'a hypocrisy will seem a little less, shall we say, hypocritical.

I'm not saying ALPA is perfect, but your continual ALPA slam with absolutely no mention of a single positive aspect of ALPA is getting old. The good is there, buried in a steaming pile maybe, but it is there no less and should be acknowledged.

How bout at least one sentence start with, "ALPA sucks, but..."
 
What caused the ALPA drive to fail miserably last time at Skywest was the ALPA extremist we have spewing their nonsense and trying to buy your a "yes" vote with lunch and most importantly insulting every pilot who doesn't agree with them.

So you made the decision whether or not to form a union for your own benefit and protection because of one idiot? Wow. Your choice.

ALPA isn't the holy grail and it isn't even the best union. It's just the best airline pilot union available. It needs a lot of improvement, especially regarding regional and cargo pilots. Those changes are happening, but too slowly for some. Since USAir bailed and due to the huge hits at DAL/NWA and United, many ALPA leadership slots have opened and been filled by regional pilots. ALPA is changing for the better. It will change faster if more pilots became involved to help it change.
 
Joe,

Put your money where your mouth is. Have a backbone and at least resign from the union. Start with that and then your argument about ALPA'a hypocrisy will seem a little less, shall we say, hypocritical.

I'm not saying ALPA is perfect, but your continual ALPA slam with absolutely no mention of a single positive aspect of ALPA is getting old. The good is there, buried in a steaming pile maybe, but it is there no less and should be acknowledged.

How bout at least one sentence start with, "ALPA sucks, but..."

Way to go Buscap, you've chased Joe away now.
 
Once again the union haters do what management loves best and is even willing to pay for.... infighting and divide and conquer.

Too difficult for hater debaters, the issue is access to govt. Airlines and corporations don't want to share govt access, so they can shape laws to their advantage. But the haters would rather fight their fellow pilots. It is turning the pilots of this profession into wage slaves. Unfortunately there are those pilots all too willing to do just that.... it is self destructive.

Unionism is why Jetblue pilots need to remove themselves from 'employee' status amongst the FAs, gate agents and rampers and switch to professional status. Join an in house union if need be, but do something. JB management knows this is the only way, legally, give pilots different benefits than other employees. What is good for one employee group is legally binding for all. Until JB pilots change that, they will be treated just like gate agents and FAs. How does JB management want to treat its pilots? Like employees or professionals? How do the JB pilots want to be treated?

It would be interesting if the values committee at JB wanted to created a Code of Ethics for their pilot group. (a great idea... go for it) How would that be received? I haven't been on in house union websites lately... but each group needs to get their own Code of Ethics.

Skywest pilots simply need to man up. Not sure what the logic is in an in-house regional union. The temptation to go in house is everywhere, even at large airlines. USAIR is a classic example. If ALPA is bad, USAPA is a total failure....

The logic to go in house is based upon the ideal that all that matters are local. IOW dealing with only ones own management. (The rules that management plays by is national.) When in actually the pilot profession is national. The future of the professional is going to be determined internationally. In house unions enjoy the small benefit of small group dynamics: it is easier to run a small group than a large one.

However the benefits of being a part of not only a national union, but an international union, a federation actually.... far out weigh the easier path of in house union politics.



Do you want to be a professional Air Line Pilot or a employee?
 
Who Cares.
 
Rez is amusing, clueless, and naive.

Try telling the several thousand retiree(s) who lost their pensions that ALPA is the answer. Their inaction set new norms for how management justifies their actions, changing the industry forever. The largest airline union in the nation sacrificed pensions, the last valuable pillar that made this job worth having. And today companies like AA, UPS, Fed Ex, cautiously negotiate fearing they will be the next target of fund raiders. My hats off to my peers at LCC and DAL. ALPA gave your retirement to the wolves.

Yep....Rez you can have ALPA. Its an organization that should serve as the benchmark of how not to conduct union business.
 
How exactly do you think ALPA should have handled the pension issue? Sorry, but there was no way around it.
 
Rez is amusing, clueless, and naive.

Try telling the several thousand retiree(s) who lost their pensions that ALPA is the answer. Their inaction set new norms for how management justifies their actions, changing the industry forever. The largest airline union in the nation sacrificed pensions, the last valuable pillar that made this job worth having. And today companies like AA, UPS, Fed Ex, cautiously negotiate fearing they will be the next target of fund raiders. My hats off to my peers at LCC and DAL. ALPA gave your retirement to the wolves.

Yep....Rez you can have ALPA. Its an organization that should serve as the benchmark of how not to conduct union business.

Unfortunately, for you, you can't dump the pension issue solely on ALPA....

In Canada, when UAL was going thru BK and wanted to gut Canadian workers pensions, just as it did in the USA, the Canadian govt told UAL that it could not. Again, this compliments what I said about unions having access to govt.

You can thank Americans who give corporations a free pass on just about everything.

In addition, the pension relief that ALPA companies got was from TA's that were voted upon by the pilot membership. With a 'gun' their heads, pilots voted to pay their monthly mortgage and food thus worrying about their pensions 'later'.

What you might want to consider is legislation that obligates corporations to keep pension and retirement accounts sound and in the black. Again, this goes to access to govt.

Finally, how do we want to define the airline industry? A cash cow for a few or do we want to declare it a national asset where all the stakeholders are considered.


Blaming ALPA is like finding a silver bullet cause for an accident. It just doesn't happen. But doing so is the easy way out.... and it sure does feel good to play the blame game....
 

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