jetBlue, I'm ready for a union

[atpcliff]

Hi!

The insurance costs you describe are OK, maybe even better than average. My wife works for a Fortune 100 company, with 20K+ employees. If we used her plan, our monthly costs would be $350, with a copay every time, we have to pay 20% of everything, and there is a $1500 deductable we would have to meet B4 the insurance pays anything.

Luckily, my airline has a better insurance plan (which a bunch of our pilots are complaining about).

If U want a better insurance system in the US, U need to look to some kind of nationalized system (note-U may not agree with me, but the CEO of Ford says we need a nationalized system).

Cliff
YIP

PS-The total spending on health care for our family of four, including what we pay, and what my wife's company would pay, exclusive of any accidents or surgey-type events for next year would be about $32,000. That's insane!

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

I'll take a splice on that spice, please!

Hmmmm. Union dues - 1.95% x 11,000.00 per month = 214.50. Jumpseater, how the heck am I supposed to make my cable bill (including spice channel) if your plan comes to fruition.

How much coaxial cable do you have around the house?

 

[English]

Do most airlines charge the employee monthly for medical benefits?

 

[G4G5]

What you may want to look at is your medical plan once you retire. I just had my B6 buddy over diner and he was pretty angry about the change in the plan. Now you folks would no better but his point was. The former plan allowed a retired pilot to use his last couple of years of sick and vac time to pay for his med bennies. Now that folks might actually start retiring. The plan was changed to 50% of COBRA.

His point was it was easy for Dave to promise something that no one could use, then change it. Talking with him yesterday, he told me that he actually brought this up to Dave last month during his recurrent. He got a whole lot of double talk and now feels that a union would be in his best intersts. Hummmm.

As far as health care. Getting a family of 4 covered for under $300 is a bargin and I would not be complaining. FYI mine is $350.

 

[roughneck]

Not to rub salt in anyones wounds, but I pay $0 (zero) for health, basic life, dental, and AD&D for myself and my entire family (including kids).

SWAPA is pretty good for us, you might think about an in-house union. It can't hurt.

BTW, SWA posted its 54 consecutive profit this past quarter. 199M. (Costs must stay low, but there are other ways of doing it than taking it out of employees pay checks)

 

[LJDRVR]

It's tempting to look at an erosion of medical benefits quality, along with an increase in cost, then assign blame to our employer.

"Jeez, why can't these guys do better than this?"

What you should keep in mind is that it's not your employer saving money by switching you to the cheaper plan, it's the managed care provider changing their product costs and profile to increase their bottom line. In my opinion, (Flame away if you disagree) there are several reasons for this.

Managed care companies have evolved from service providers with more of an eye towards providing a fair product at a reasonable price, to giant, greedy corporations, with a lust for cash and growth, whose management are provided with bloated compensation packages at the expense of your health.

This business model encourages your physician to provide as little care as possible for you, with writing a script for a drug as the end result of most encounters.

Drug companies are totally and completely out of control. In their zeal for money, the system is structured to provide you with an expensive "purple pill" instead of diagnosing the behavior that may be a part of your symtoms or the cause of your condition. You are never encouraged to take personal responsibility to get out there and change your behavior in such a way that you are healthy and don't need a purple pill. ("God forbid the customers get cured, who are we going to sell this garbage to?") So, your HMO's denial for an expensive test that might help rule out a life-threatening condition, not to mention the ever increasing cost of benefits, are directly attributable to a "sytem" that encourages irresponsible behavior and disease, because that's where the profit is.

Here's something to think about. In our utopia of fat, corn-syrup swilling, locust-like, overeating consumers, 1 out of 3 children born in the year 2004 will be diagnosed with diabetes during their lifetime. If the kids are black or hispanic, the number is an astounding 50%. How much do you think this is going to cost us? Look beyond the cost of a lifetime of treatment, and examine the associated costs of heart disease, strokes, liver failure, loss of vision, etc. The list goes on and on.

Now this is not to say that some companies don't take advantage of these syrocketing health care costs. GM is now involved in a major public affairs campaign to educate us about how they cannot continue to provide the health benefits they promised to their retirees, and remain a viable company. How much you want to bet their senior executive's health-care remains untouched?

O.K., hippie rant over. I just wanted to say look beyond the impulse to assume it's the employers fault. We're all experiencing similiar instances to the one you describe. Who's to blame? Ultimately a society of over-eating unhealthy slobs, who do nothing for their bodies, but are happy to stand up at a town hall debate and ask the politician why their health care costs so much. It's not entirely their fault though. The system is well constructed to prevent the consumer from ever finding out what's really important. The HMO's, drug manufacturers, beef, pork, poultry and sugar industries most certainly have a vested interest in you continuing to consume their products, even if it's killing you. (And destroying our ecosystem)

We deserve better. So do our kids. Educate yourself.

 

[capt. megadeth]

"Not to rub salt in anyones wounds, but I pay $0 (zero) for health, basic life, dental, and AD&D for myself and my entire family (including kids).

SWAPA is pretty good for us, you might think about an in-house union. It can't hurt."

That's awesome. What that takes is management that actually gives a $hit about employees....very hard to come by these days. Hopefully, it will stay that way for you guys/gals.

LJDRVR,
Very good post....don't forget the spiraled out of control sue happy mentality in this country that has driven costs up. It's a vicious cycle.

 

[TexaSWA]

You know Southwest is hiring. Maybe someone will loan you the 6500.00 for the type.

Then when you get to SWA you can pay back the loan in about 18 months with the money you will save on health insurance. Or pay it off in about two months with the difference in 2nd year pay.

 

[jetblue320]

On page 32 of my 2005 open enrollment guide on the top left of the page it says "pilot loss of license insurance". It goes on to talk about a maxim benifit of $5,000 paid out for not more than 2 years after a six month waiting perod. I wonder if thats a fancy way of saying we only get this "benifit" for 1.5 years.

Maybe another jetblue pilot will verify that it is in the manual ,you can go back and look. You can then call benifits to reguest a new one since they obviously sent you an incomplete pack.

As to your buddy list don't bother.

Well, I did not look in that "company publication" since you did not refer to it by name. I was looking at the handout I got in the crewroom the other day. I haven't received the newest one in the mail yet either. I could've sworn you said you were out on the road and got your info first hand from a mechanic and a flight attendant's copy? Anyway, not my point. How does the fact that our medical insurance co-pays and premiums went up (apparently a lot of other companies have as well) have anything to do with David building this company on your back? "David" does not even get involved with decidions of this nature, that is done in the People Dept, FYI. And how, more importantly, is a union going to solve this apparent financial situation for you AND the rest of us? ANd lastly, why do you seem to think that this is a "junior guy versus senior guy" battle, or even view it as a battle at all? Really, I would seriously like to hear what you have to say provided it's not just ranting.

C yaaa

 

[heilhaavir]

At my outfit I pay 92$/month for a family of 5 (Cigna)

 

[dlredline]

Thank you for taking the time to respond a get some real numbers. I went from memory on what I was paying which was wrong. After looking it up on BCSS I pay 232.46/mt currently the new benifits will run 269.86 for similar elections. We are going to drop vision ( even with our benifits Costco is cheaper ) and we are adding dental for the whole family. The new total is 278.96.

I reacted a little strongly when I first saw the numbers. I am affriad though the real cost bump will be next year while using the plan.

No problem. My point is, though there is a slight increase in top end coverage, there are some very useful and benefitial items added to the coverage that will help offset the small premium increase. I think you'll find the 100% preventive care coverage huge if you have kids. And we're gonna update our will now that there's a legal coverage provision in the contract.

Again, take a little time to read through the whole document, figure what applies to you and what you can take advantage of, compare to it to the alternative plans out there, and I think you'll be satisfied with your overall coverage.

Take care,

Red

 

[dlredline]

What you may want to look at is your medical plan once you retire. I just had my B6 buddy over diner and he was pretty angry about the change in the plan. Now you folks would no better but his point was. The former plan allowed a retired pilot to use his last couple of years of sick and vac time to pay for his med bennies. Now that folks might actually start retiring. The plan was changed to 50% of COBRA. . .

Tell your buddy to take a few moments to actually read the contract, specifically the posted "white paper" ammendment summary #7. The provision to use 2 years of PTO (sick and vacation) accrual is unchanged. You can still use this payout to cover medical/dental/vision after you retire, and the plan guarantees continual coverage for retirees. Again, ask the current batch of retired pilots at USAir (or UAL soon) how this recently passed TA will effect them. Their coverage is getting pulled all together, no supplemental available.

And when your buddy asks "what happens if I have over 2 years PTO", he'll get paid out the excess amount. Tell him he can invest the excess, annualize the returns, and maybe subsidize a couple more years of insurance costs after retirement to bring right up to Social Security.

Come on, folks, enough of this "I heard from a mechanic, a buddy, my neighbor, the protologist . . ." There's not always a gunman behind every grassy knoll. Take the time to read the material sent to you before you go postal on what others comment on.

Take care,

Red

 

[Boeingman]

From the replies here (aside from SWA) it seems JB's medical plan is on par with the industry (averaged out).

LJDRVR's response should be required reading for all of our lawmakers. Of course with all that soft money from the drug outfits it wouldn't do a dang thing.

 

[Nandu]

No problem. My point is, though there is a slight increase in top end coverage, there are some very useful and benefitial items added to the coverage that will help offset the small premium increase. I think you'll find the 100% preventive care coverage huge if you have kids. And we're gonna update our will now that there's a legal coverage provision in the contract.

Take care,

Red

Actually, DL, if you read the benefits guide, it says you pay 100% of preventive care. I think if you read page 13, they actually intended to say that preventive care is paid for by the company, but on page 12 it does say that preventive is 100% paid for by the employee.

Hopefully a clarification email will come out soon.

 

[sleepy]

Jumpseater, here you go. The APLA contact phone number is (703) 689-2270. Go ahead and make the call, I'm sure that they would love to talk to you.

 

[dlredline]

Actually, DL, if you read the benefits guide, it says you pay 100% of preventive care. I think if you read page 13, they actually intended to say that preventive care is paid for by the company, but on page 12 it does say that preventive is 100% paid for by the employee.

Hopefully a clarification email will come out soon.

Nandu,

Thanks for the post. I read page 4 that says "Preventive care received from network providers will be paid at 100%, with no deductible and no copay." Take a closer look at page 12, and there's a note to refer to page 13. The Benefits Dept. explained further that all the items listed on page 13, "Preventive Care Benefits", are indeed covered at 100% provided you are in-network (includes routine physicals, immunizations, PAP smear and mammogram, prostrate exam, and routine well child exams). None of these items are covered under the old policy, so this is an improvement. Items outside the list on page 13 you'll pay for yourself.

All in all, still a good policy for our pilots, particularily those with families.

Take care,

Red

 

[fredflyer]

Thanks you guys, after reading this thread, I won't have to read the actual booklet when it comes in the mail.

 

[Freight Dog]

Yikes!!!

Kinda puts things in perspective, doesn't it?

 

[jaxgus]

Help Your Buddy

What you may want to look at is your medical plan once you retire. I just had my B6 buddy over diner and he was pretty angry about the change in the plan. Now you folks would no better but his point was. The former plan allowed a retired pilot to use his last couple of years of sick and vac time to pay for his med bennies. Now that folks might actually start retiring. The plan was changed to 50% of COBRA.

His point was it was easy for Dave to promise something that no one could use, then change it. Talking with him yesterday, he told me that he actually brought this up to Dave last month during his recurrent. He got a whole lot of double talk and now feels that a union would be in his best intersts. Hummmm.

As far as health care. Getting a family of 4 covered for under $300 is a bargin and I would not be complaining. FYI mine is $350.

G4,
You have posted many replies regarding B6 based on information from your "B6 Buddy." May I suggest you mentor him and suggest he finds a different employer since he is so unhappy at B6 based on your posts. The beauty of living in the USA is we have the choice of where we work.
Your friend CHOSE to apply to B6; he CHOSE to accept an interview; he CHOSE to accept a pilot position and he CHOSE to sign our contract. If he is unhappy with out current health care options he can CHOOSE to not participate in the B6 plan. Then he can invest the money he'd pay for health insurance in a Medical Savings Account which is tax deductible and he can keep this until he dies. Plus, he can negotiate fees with his doctors and phaemacists to save even more money.
We have choices over every aspect of our lives and your B6 Buddy chose JetBlue. He should be extremely grateful to have a good job in a place where the majority of Crewmembers are happy to be there. Looking at your profile, you can also mentor him on what being furloughed is like and then I'd remind him B6 has an iron clad no furlough clause in our contracts. I bet he stays!!

 

[freightdogfred]

Hi!

If U want a better insurance system in the US, U need to look to some kind of nationalized system (note-U may not agree with me, but the CEO of Ford says we need a nationalized system).

Cliff
YIP

PS-The total spending on health care for our family of four, including what we pay, and what my wife's company would pay, exclusive of any accidents or surgey-type events for next year would be about $32,000. That's insane!

Yea right...... If you think insurance is expensive now, just wait until it's "free"
There's no free lunch, Bub. That money will come from somewheres, like outta yer check in the form of tax. That way, all the indigents and wards of the state will have full covereage jus like us workin folks.....
Get a clue.

 

[capt. megadeth]

"Yea right...... If you think insurance is expensive now, just wait until it's "free"
There's no free lunch, Bub."

Um, many Americans have "free" health insurance...it's called Public "I'm too lazy to get a job because all I do is have babies and smoke crack" Aid. And all of us taxpayers are paying for it.

Guess what I found out recently? If you are on the "free card" and you need an organ transplant...guess what? You get one for free! If you have private health insurance...it is more than likely not covered. So much for being a contributing member to society!

 

[TonyC]

Well, I did not look in that "company publication" since you did not refer to it by name. I was looking at the handout I got in the crewroom the other day. I haven't received the newest one in the mail yet either.


...


Really, I would seriously like to hear what you have to say provided it's not just ranting.

I'm curious.

What, in your mind, sets your ranting above that of Jumpseater?

He clearly stated his gripe, and cited sources for his information. You basically told him to shut up until he was better informed (with pro-JetBlue information). Apparently you STILL don't have information to go on. So then, what makes you the expert?


On another topic, do the FA's and mechanics you deal with know how you feel abot them? (" ... don't give too much creedence [sic] to what a mechanic and an FA have to say ...") I wonder if those team members would appreciate your helping out cleaning the cabin for them if they knew how you really feel.

 

[klhoard]

. . . .<snip>. . .B6 has an iron clad no furlough clause in our contracts. . . <snip>. .

.
.
.
You guys crack me up. . . . it sure must be a heavy stack of paper with all of that "iron" in it!!
.
.
.

 

[B-atch]

The effects from the BLUE coolaid are wearing off!!!

 

[jetblue320]

I'm curious.

What, in your mind, sets your ranting above that of Jumpseater?

He clearly stated his gripe, and cited sources for his information. You basically told him to shut up until he was better informed (with pro-JetBlue information). Apparently you STILL don't have information to go on. So then, what makes you the expert?


On another topic, do the FA's and mechanics you deal with know how you feel abot them? (" ... don't give too much creedence [sic] to what a mechanic and an FA have to say ...") I wonder if those team members would appreciate your helping out cleaning the cabin for them if they knew how you really feel.

Ok Tony, I'll bite. Firstly, if you derived what I said to be a shut up, well, you are wrong. I have the information, but didn't feel the need to research it for him like my Pal DLRedline did. And the reason, Jumpseater came out basically citing a need for a union because he was unhappy, or more likely unsure of the new health and benefits plan(s). I am not the People Dept, and neither is Flightinfo.com. My point (whether you got it or not I couldn't care less) is that spouting off here on this forum won't answer his questions although it will probably make him feel better venting I suppose.

And as far as the F/A' s and Mechanics.....I was refering to his statement about Loss Of License Insurance. I may not know much about our plans but I am pretty sure our F/A's aren't covered. The Mechanics, I really couldn't tell you one way or the other. ANd yes, I DO clean out the cabin with them side by side, and yes, they appreciate it. I also make food runs and look after them like my own family, so there!

Any other questions?

 

[TonyC]

And as far as the F/A' s and Mechanics.....I was refering to his statement about Loss Of License Insurance.

I'm sorry, but I must raise the flag on this one. You made this remark, "And do YOURSELF a favor at the same time and don't give too much creedence to what a mechanic and an FA have to say ..." after Jumpseater's original post jetBlue, I'm ready for a union where he made no mention of a Loss Of License Insurance. He clearly stated that he had referenced an FA's plan and talked to a mechanic about it. Both contacts were relative to Health Care, not LOL. The only other topic mentioned was the absence of a COLA.

Care to try again?

 

[sleepy]

I'm sorry, but I must raise the flag on this one. You made this remark, "And do YOURSELF a favor at the same time and don't give too much creedence to what a mechanic and an FA have to say ..." after Jumpseater's original post jetBlue, I'm ready for a union where he made no mention of a Loss Of License Insurance. He clearly stated that he had referenced an FA's plan and talked to a mechanic about it. Both contacts were relative to Health Care, not LOL. The only other topic mentioned was the absence of a COLA.

Care to try again?

Raise any flag you want TonyC, just please don't raise that ugly orange one in your avatar!

 

[jetblue320]

I'm sorry, but I must raise the flag on this one. You made this remark, "And do YOURSELF a favor at the same time and don't give too much creedence to what a mechanic and an FA have to say ..." after Jumpseater's original post jetBlue, I'm ready for a union where he made no mention of a Loss Of License Insurance. He clearly stated that he had referenced an FA's plan and talked to a mechanic about it. Both contacts were relative to Health Care, not LOL. The only other topic mentioned was the absence of a COLA.

Care to try again?

Alright already...you win.....that loss of license was the second or third post he made. You know what, why don't you and Jumpseater talk unions together. I'm tired, got an early trip tomorrow, and need my sleep so I can abuse the mechanics and slap an FA or two.

Bye

 

[Boeingman]

and need my sleep so I can abuse the mechanics and slap an FA or two.

Bye

The slapping of the FA.....Is that in or out of your hotel room?

 

[English]

Kinda puts things in perspective, doesn't it?

Sure does...I just assumed, I guess, that medical coverage was covered at all airlines above the regional level.

I'd better start paying closer attention to the details!