Jetblue EMB rates

[C77MD80]

I've got a couple of friends at Jetblue and there take on the pay with the EMB is something like: the aircract has to prove itself first and then we'll take a bump in pay just like the airbus did. For those of you there, how long before the bump comes? Do you think it will happen? What do you expect it to be? How long did it take before Airbus rates went up? Are any other operators flying with proposed 190 rates? I've been thinking of jumping ship lately but the paycut is tough for a single dude with a mortgage.

 

[WNFO]

If you are going to look at 190 rates, look at the Capt. rates. Anyone getting the 190 should upgrade very fast with 26 a year coming. A 1st year Capt should be able to make close to 100K. Remeber, anything over 70 hours is time and a half, so even if you are an FO you can do o.k. Besides, you don't have to take the 190 as a new hire, you are given the choice of aircraft.

 

[skirt]

One of the very nice features of a job offer at JetBlue is that you don't have to worry about making your mortgage on EMB rates if you don't want to. All new hires are given a choice of an EMB class date or an A320 class date. So far the EMB slots go quicker than the A320 slots, so you would have no problem getting A320 if that is your choice. All the naysayers who said "nobody would want to be an E190 FO" have been proven wrong. Given a choice, many new hires WANT to fly the E190.

Most (if not all) other airlines assign you to your first plane, based on the "needs of the service". At JetBlue, you get a choice. If you want quick upgrade and don't want to sit reserve, take the E190. If you want slower upgrade, longer reserve, but more pay, then take the A320.

Skirt

P.S. Yeah, I expect at some point the EMB FO pay rate will be addressed too once the aircraft proves to be profitable in service and the upgrade extends significantly.

 

[holdon]

While I agree with Skirt, I certainly don't agree with the pay rates. However, I do have every belief that our management will "do the right thing" and adjust the pay rates when the A/C proves itself. When? Who knows. My guess is (I hope I'm wrong and it's sooner)....but somewhere in the next 14-18 months. As the upgrade time gets longer on the 190 we are going to have to pay higher rates to keep classes filled.
As you've heard a few times the 320 paid pretty low wages (relative) when it was launched. I think our management team has a pretty logical approach to how they deal with business decisions like these. " We don't want to promise something and have to take it away (ie.pay) We would rather have it on property, make sure it does what it's supposed to do, then spread the rewards"

As of right now, it's still going through some growing pains but quickly becoming a great airplane for the mission it was designed. Time will tell but I do believe there are hundreds of markets this Airplane will do well in and generate some great revenue for the bottom line.

 

[smokey999]

"As the upgrade time gets longer on the 190 we are going to have to pay higher rates to keep classes filled."

Man, with thousands upon thousands of applications in the system, I highly doubt it would come to that anytime soon, although I'd love to see it.

 

[#1 Windmilling]

Actually, let's hope the -190 can generate enough revenue for the top line such that once the operating expenses are accounted, we will have a positive net income. Otherwise those pay rates aren't going anywhere. (IMHO)

 

[capnbob928s4]

If you are going to look at 190 rates, look at the Capt. rates. Anyone getting the 190 should upgrade very fast with 26 a year coming. A 1st year Capt should be able to make close to 100K. Remeber, anything over 70 hours is time and a half, so even if you are an FO you can do o.k. Besides, you don't have to take the 190 as a new hire, you are given the choice of aircraft.

Where do you get this from? Stop drinking the koolaid!!!!
A 1st year E190 Captain makes $71.00 an hour. Even with 85 hours of credit a month, including the 150% override, that comes out to about $79,000 a year. Add per diem and you're looking at around $85,000. Not really $100,000 now is it??????

 

[MickeySlapnutz]

One of the very nice features of a job offer at JetBlue is that you don't have to worry about making your mortgage on EMB rates if you don't want to. All new hires are given a choice of an EMB class date or an A320 class date. So far the EMB slots go quicker than the A320 slots, so you would have no problem getting A320 if that is your choice. All the naysayers who said "nobody would want to be an E190 FO" have been proven wrong. Given a choice, many new hires WANT to fly the E190.

Most (if not all) other airlines assign you to your first plane, based on the "needs of the service". At JetBlue, we recognize the "needs of the pilot" too, and give them a choice. If you want quick upgrade and don't want to sit reserve, take the E190 and the associated pay. If you want slower upgrade, longer reserve, but more pay, then take the A320. Novel idea for a novel airline.

Skirt

P.S. Yeah, I expect at some point the EMB FO pay rate will be addressed too once the aircraft proves to be profitable in service and the upgrade extends significantly.

I think I'm gonna puke.....

 

[Spectre]

"Where do you get this from? Stop drinking the koolaid!!!!
A 1st year E190 Captain makes $71.00 an hour. Even with 85 hours of credit a month, including the 150% override, that comes out to about $79,000 a year. Add per diem and you're looking at around $85,000. Not really $100,000 now is it??????"

Man, it's really hard to make a good living on a measly $85K a year. Where can you get hired and start making that kind of money in less than a year service? What do you get paid after a year at AMR, NWA, DAL, or UAL? Not so great...Oh, they aren't hiring are they?

 

[WNFO]

Where do you get this from? Stop drinking the koolaid!!!!
A 1st year E190 Captain makes $71.00 an hour. Even with 85 hours of credit a month, including the 150% override, that comes out to about $79,000 a year. Add per diem and you're looking at around $85,000. Not really $100,000 now is it??????

First of all I have been around too long to drink anybody's F***ing kool-aide!
$85,000? Whatever, my point is you can do fairly well on a 1st year 190 pay scale. It is a lot more $$ than I ever made after 6 years with the commuter I left. And like I said, you can bail to the 320 after 2 years anyway or just don't take the 190 in the first place jerk off.

 

[clickclickboom]

First of all I have been around too long to drink anybody's F***ing kool-aide!
$85,000? Whatever, my point is you can do fairly well on a 1st year 190 pay scale. It is a lot more $$ than I ever made after 6 years with the commuter I left. And like I said, you can bail to the 320 after 2 years anyway or just don't take the 190 in the first place jerk off.

Dude dont get bent just look at this guys profile:

His calls himself capnbob and talks about his 928s4 a car that even in the 80's was ugly as hell

His avatar is superman

his lists every large jet that he has flown except the concorde because he soloed that one so it doesnt count!

If he is the big capnbob superpilot old porsche driving from when he still had hair 6 figure megapilot he wouldn't be posting in reply to your message now would he?

 

[MercuryPilot]

Where do you get this from? Stop drinking the koolaid!!!!
A 1st year E190 Captain makes $71.00 an hour. Even with 85 hours of credit a month, including the 150% override, that comes out to about $79,000 a year. Add per diem and you're looking at around $85,000. Not really $100,000 now is it??????

Don't forget the 401K matching and occasionally some profit sharing when looking at the total compensation picture.

BTW, it must be nice to be in a position where you can look down your nose at the low-life people who scrape by at ~$85,000 a year.

 

[elag777]

I think I'm gonna puke.....

Mickeyslapnutz...aka "puke boy"
Wow! such a thoughtful contribution..

 

[DTW320]

First of all I have been around too long to drink anybody's F***ing kool-aide!
$85,000? Whatever, my point is you can do fairly well on a 1st year 190 pay scale. It is a lot more $$ than I ever made after 6 years with the commuter I left. And like I said, you can bail to the 320 after 2 years anyway or just don't take the 190 in the first place jerk off.

OK, I must have missed something. First year E190 pay is $37/hour right? Upgrade takes about a year right? So the whole first year would be at $37/hour right? 85 hours/month X 12 = $41k + perdiem right?(including the 150% over 70)........This is a lot more than you made after 6 years with a commuter?

 

[SUNDOWN]

Hey Skirt, you still a Mgmt Type??

 

[capnbob928s4]

See, the koolaid is working! You guys circle around then gang up on anyone whose opinion is different that the "blue view." FlyB6 made a statement and I simply stated that he was incorrect. Those pay scales are not the highest in the industry and won't pay you $100k a year as he said. Then someone else chimes in and starts adding in profit sharing, benefits, etc.. As pilots, we know when we talk about how much money we make to our families, friends and co-workers, we don't include benefits, etc! Be real! Yes, you surely can get by on $85k a year. I can. But that's not the point. It's $85 working quite a bit of overtime and not $100 that was proposed. In fact, if you're on reserve, it's only $66,000 a year. See the difference?? Like when you commuter guys were working for Express and people said who do you fly for and you say the mainline airline. True isn't it??? Don't cut down someone for being right. We've all done it.

 

[SUNDOWN]

So Bob....where do you work?

 

[capnbob928s4]

Work at CX

 

[skirt]

Hey Skirt, you still a Mgmt Type??

I am a line pilot, if that is what you are asking.

 

[MercuryPilot]

See, the koolaid is working! You guys circle around then gang up on anyone whose opinion is different that the "blue view." FlyB6 made a statement and I simply stated that he was incorrect. Those pay scales are not the highest in the industry and won't pay you $100k a year as he said. Then someone else chimes in and starts adding in profit sharing, benefits, etc.. As pilots, we know when we talk about how much money we make to our families, friends and co-workers, we don't include benefits, etc! Be real! Yes, you surely can get by on $85k a year. I can. But that's not the point. It's $85 working quite a bit of overtime and not $100 that was proposed. In fact, if you're on reserve, it's only $66,000 a year. See the difference?? Like when you commuter guys were working for Express and people said who do you fly for and you say the mainline airline. True isn't it??? Don't cut down someone for being right. We've all done it.

Could you please quote the person who used the term benefits in the previous posts on this thread?

401K matching and profit sharing are an important part of total compensation and each employees annual gross. You see, the more we work, the more we make, and in turn the more we receive in 401K matching and profit sharing. These two vehicles provide my family w/CASH put into an account w/my name on it. So yes, I do consider these when discussing how much we make. Does your airline provide 401K matching and profit sharing?

Medical/dental/vison/life insurance/AD&D/etc. are benefits that don't put CASH into my pocket.

 

[GuppyPuppy]

MercuryPilot:

"I'd rather have my sister in a whore house than my brother in an F-16. FLY NAVY!"


Go Civilians! Yea!

 

[MercuryPilot]

MercuryPilot:

"I'd rather have my sister in a whore house than my brother in an F-16. FLY NAVY!"


Go Civilians! Yea!

Just having some fun w/the pilots of my sister Service.
BEAT ARMY!-That I'm not kidding about.
MP

 

[MickeySlapnutz]

Could you please quote the person who used the term benefits in the previous posts on this thread?

401K matching and profit sharing are an important part of total compensation and each employees annual gross. You see, the more we work, the more we make, and in turn the more we receive in 401K matching and profit sharing. These two vehicles provide my family w/CASH put into an account w/my name on it. So yes, I do consider these when discussing how much we make. Does your airline provide 401K matching and profit sharing?

Medical/dental/vison/life insurance/AD&D/etc. are benefits that don't put CASH into my pocket.

How much does the company match?
How much profit sharing are you going to get from 2005's hard work?
Are you paying more for your Med insurance every year?

Standing by for the excuses.

 

[SUNDOWN]

I am a line pilot, if that is what you are asking.

It's not an attack Skirt, just wondering if you are day to day with the 190.

 

[AA717driver]

The reason the 190 pay at JB sucks is that so many people going there are from relatively senior positions at other airlines.

For a newbie from a regional, $37/hr. is not unreasonable. As long as the growth keeps going, it'll be ok. When it stops, it's really going to suck to be a long-term FO on the 190.

The guys at JB believe that issue will be addressed when that situation happens. If you don't like it, don't apply. That's like bit@hing about flying 7 legs a day as a new hire at SWA...TC

 

[Maj]

Benefits not so good

Could you please quote the person who used the term benefits in the previous posts on this thread?

401K matching and profit sharing are an important part of total compensation and each employees annual gross. You see, the more we work, the more we make, and in turn the more we receive in 401K matching (...up to a limit)and profit sharing. These two vehicles provide my family w/CASH put into an account w/my name on it. So yes, I do consider these when discussing how much we make. Does your airline provide 401K matching and profit sharing?

Medical/dental/vison/life insurance/AD&D/etc. are benefits that don't put CASH into my pocket.

Since my 401K match and profit sharing (if any) are deposited into long-term savings I personally don't consider them CASH, and therefore don't count them in my annual income.

MickeySlapnutzQuote:
Originally Posted by MercuryPilot
Could you please quote the person who used the term benefits in the previous posts on this thread?

401K matching and profit sharing are an important part of total compensation and each employees annual gross. You see, the more we work, the more we make, and in turn the more we receive in 401K matching and profit sharing. These two vehicles provide my family w/CASH put into an account w/my name on it. So yes, I do consider these when discussing how much we make. Does your airline provide 401K matching and profit sharing?

Medical/dental/vison/life insurance/AD&D/etc. are benefits that don't put CASH into my pocket.


How much does the company match?
How much profit sharing are you going to get from 2005's hard work?
Are you paying more for your Med insurance every year?

Standing by for the excuses.

Our 401K match is a LOW 3%. No profit sharing this year, and there'll be many significant capital expenditures in the next several out years. Since my pay hasn't changed much in my 4 years (except for the small annual raise), and my healthcare has consistently increased, I've actually seen a small net pay reduction year over year. Yet we continue to hire large numbers of folks (flight att/ground folks) with high-risk lifestyles (gay/smokers/fat). When one gets into the fineprint of out long-term dis...it's not good compared with industry standard. Two years and then you're done. "Time to make the doughnuts" (RIP)

Okay...caveat for the kool-aid drinkers: I'm happy here and enjoy the folks I work with. Believe me, I looked at going to UPS/FedEX (assuming I could get interview and subsequently hired) but from year 3 on it would take a while to catch up (variables considered -QOL/pay/PIC/equip). I think that there's been quite a few folks recently who've left for other places. I think that trend will continue.

The people who brag about making 150K here use some creative math. After talking with them, I realize that they often times work 20-ish days/month (nothing wrong if that's their program), use PTO and then pick up other trips, and/or include 401K/P.S./CSPP. Or they're super senior and can avg >7 hrs/day.

Once again...in order to not offend the thin-(blue)skinned folks on here it still is a good place to work. Like just about anywhere else, it's not perfect. Unfortunately for now, we'll just have to grin and bear it or go elsewhere.

 

[MercuryPilot]

How much does the company match?
How much profit sharing are you going to get from 2005's hard work?
Are you paying more for your Med insurance every year?

Standing by for the excuses.

Puke Boy,

3%

We'll find out sometime in February/March.

Of course they did. Specifically, premiums are up slightly and the deductible we're responsible for stayed the same.

How about where you work? Remember, no excuses...

 

[GuppyPuppy]

Just having some fun w/the pilots of my sister Service.
BEAT ARMY!-That I'm not kidding about.
MP

As am I.

I just got a little sick and tired of MB at the mixers down in MCO when he kept saying "GO NAVY!" everytime a navy pilot introduced him/herself. Nobody cheers for the civilians!?! C'mon...what a jip!

Back to the thread...Not sure if we will see much, if any, increase in the EMB rates. People keep referring back to when the JB pilots got the big A320 raise in 2001. I firmly believe that one of the biggest reasons for the raise was that their initial pay rates were very low (at the time, actually about 1/3 of the pay at United) and they wanted to up the rates to keep people from leaving.

JB is setting the benchmark now on the E190. Every other operator will now be offering rates similar to what JB pays. In a couple of years when there are more airlines operating the same type for similar rates, why would JB raise the rate? Certainly not for attrition reasons. Hopefully out of the goodness of their hearts.

BTW...been much happier flying with the Navy guys vs. the AF guys.

GO BUSH PILOTS!

GP

 

[Sailpilot]

As am I.


GO BUSH PILOTS!

GP

BAJA BUSH

or

ALASKA BUSH?

Go Baja Bush Pilots! There is always something to fight about.

 

[FurloughedTwice]

Man, it's really hard to make a good living on a measly $85K a year. Where can you get hired and start making that kind of money in less than a year service?

Spectre, are you sure you weren't a Airline CEO in another life? This sounds very familiar.