JetBlue control problem over Vegas yesterday?

[tzskipper]

With all of that, they check the Landing distance table for 35C and 2400ft elevation @167k lbs (Guesses) and it says they're going long. I think the decision is made, hold and burn. Easier to hold with 2 engines and the Blue, than worrying about winding up in the Luxor's lobby.

Was Nellis a consideration?

S

 

[N311HK]

There is a 35C in Vegas ? I'm not a BUS guy but was this a 0 flap situation given the problems they had ..

Sorry. 19L runway. 35 for the temp

 

[Golden Falcon]

I'm not a BUS guy but was this a 0 flap situation given the problems they had ..

Flaps zero, or jammed where they are, slats functional...

 

[Andy]

With all of that, they check the Landing distance table for 35C and 2400ft elevation @167k lbs (Guesses) and it says they're going long. I think the decision is made, hold and burn. Easier to hold with 2 engines and the Blue, than worrying about winding up in the Luxor's lobby.

Victorville is close by. 17/35 is 15,050 ft. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_California_Logistics_Airport
If that's not enough runway, there's no Luxor to be concerned about in Victorville; just tumbleweeds.

Four hours is an excessive amount of time to remain in the air with a hydraulic malfunction.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Yeah, the self-test only takes a few seconds when you start the second engine. JB has a two minute warmup if the plane has been on the ground for less than two hours, otherwise it's five minutes, so that isn't a factor.

Airbus wants you to wait 40 seconds after closing the cargo door to start the second engine, perhaps to allow the yellow system to fully depressurize. If you single engine taxi with the electric yellow on and then switch it off and immediately start it, does the self-test see a pressure differential long enough to completely test the PTU?

One of the most common reasons for the yellow system to overheat is a stuck cargo door switch. I find it incredible that the green system failed and very shortly there after the yellow overheated.

The more reasonable scenario would be an overheated yellow system faulting and causing the PTU to fault with it, leaving a green system by itself (not a huge deal). So how did they end up without a green system?? I guess we'll find out someday.

 

[airplane wizard]

Victorville is close by. 17/35 is 15,050 ft. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_California_Logistics_Airport
If that's not enough runway, there's no Luxor to be concerned about in Victorville; just tumbleweeds.

Four hours is an excessive amount of time to remain in the air with a hydraulic malfunction.

Yea, especially with no manual reversion.

 

[AKAAB]

So how did they end up without a green system?? I guess we'll find out someday.

Leak in the wheel well...

 

[N311HK]

Victorville is close by. 17/35 is 15,050 ft. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_California_Logistics_Airport
If that's not enough runway, there's no Luxor to be concerned about in Victorville; just tumbleweeds.

Four hours is an excessive amount of time to remain in the air with a hydraulic malfunction.

Def a possibility. I'm just trying to think inside their heads. With no steering, they're probably thinking they have to deplane on the runway if the FBO doesnt have a proper bar and stairs. Dunno what kind of services they have. We had one with a similar problem out of Bogota. Not sure what they did.

 

[Blue Dude]

Airbus wants you to wait 40 seconds after closing the cargo door to start the second engine, perhaps to allow the yellow system to fully depressurize. If you single engine taxi with the electric yellow on and then switch it off and immediately start it, does the self-test see a pressure differential long enough to completely test the PTU?

The 40 second delay is because operating the yellow pump with the cargo door switch inhibits the PTU, to keep the PTU from pressurizing the green system when all you want to do is operate the door. I don't think it has anything to do with pressurization time. There's a lot of input into the PTU activation logic, and pressure differential is just one of them.

I don't know enough about the LAS scenario to speculate on why two systems would have dumped one after the other, but it does seem suspiciously like they weren't completely independent faults, doesn't it? It's certainly worth investigating. I just hope they don't try to fault the crew (again).

 

[Blue Dude]

I believe people may be confusing the loss of all hydraulics on the Airbus with the loss of all flight control computers...

Two distinctly different scenarios.

Guilty. I conflated two different control problems. Sorry.

 

[kf4amu]

Def a possibility. I'm just trying to think inside their heads.

Great idea. Screw waiting for the facts, lets just go on what the media and ATC tapes say and make up the rest. Hell we can fix this deficit problem by getting rid of the NTSB and just using you guys!

 

[airplane wizard]

Great idea. Screw waiting for the facts, lets just go on what the media and ATC tapes say and make up the rest. Hell we can fix this deficit problem by getting rid of the NTSB and just using you guys!

Yes, and always believe what the Government tells you.

 

[Bringupthebird]

I don't know enough about the LAS scenario to speculate on why two systems would have dumped one after the other, but it does seem suspiciously like they weren't completely independent faults, doesn't it? It's certainly worth investigating. I just hope they don't try to fault the crew (again).

Well, with all the integration between systems, I can see how a procedure could be implemented that seems straightforward enough, but in fact causes an unforseen conflict that doesn't make itself apparent until an emergency arises.

The crew does the best they can with the info they have, but training limits its scenarios to the failures that happen they way they should, instead of failures that fail in ways you don't expect.