JetBlue CEO on pilot’s mid-air meltdown: ‘It started medical, but clearly wasn’t’

[Blue Dude]

Sorry, I didn't mean to disparage anyone with a mental illness. I only meant to argue against the notion that the incident was psychological on its face, that there may be other explanations than mental illness. It was merely a quibble over definitions, not a judgment of character. Except Slater though, he really was just an idiot.

 

[BuckMurdock1]

I think this thread went like 3 pages with terms like "mutiny" were thrown around...until

He was clearly mentally incapacitated and the FO did the right thing. Period...

Bingo! Seems pretty clear-cut to me. Just about every airline's GOM/FOM not only allows for this in the event of PIC "incapacitation", but requires the F/O to act. I think soon we'll see our respective ops manuals revised to specifically include the term "mental incapacity", though I believe it's already inferred.

Also, I think that soon we'll have mandatory 'mental evaluations' at the local AME for 1st class medicals...with an additional cost I'm sure.

Don't get me wrong, I hope that this guy gets the help that he needs if he has some treatable mental illness..but he sure has opened an unfortunate can of worms for all of us.

 

[hammer2]

Not necessarily true. If he was a current and qualified JB captain, he would be expected to take command. By that point, though, the crucial decision to take over from the captain had already been made by the FO, so that takes absolutely nothing away from him. I'm sure the non-rev's captain's role will be clarified later when a proper analysis is finished.

Will he get hourly pay? After clarification of course!

 

[waka]

I still think its an appropriate term. I will give you loosely appropriate, but I still think appropriate. And the reason for it was because he locked the Captain out. Mutiny has to do with any "ship" and overthrowing a captain.

But you tell me what word would be more appropriate.

"

Already told you, he was relieved of his duties.

The definition of mutiny that you posted actually proves your contention wrong, especially what you highlighted in red.

For your own benefit, look up "overthrown", then, (as anther post said) look up "conspiracy". Quit trying to save face. It's okay to be wrong.

Anyway, I'm finished with the semantics argument.

 

[UpNDownGuy]

The other captain "assisted". He did not take command.

Our FOM has some pretty specific language about what happens when a pilot is incapacitated, like this case. A Captain-qualified available pilot assumes command when the Captain is incapacitated, period.

 

[gringo]

Our FOM has some pretty specific language about what happens when a pilot is incapacitated, like this case. A Captain-qualified available pilot assumes command when the Captain is incapacitated, period.

So the question is, are both pilots type rated in the aircraft? (It's been a long time since I last flew domestic 2 pilot operations; back then the FO did not need a type rating, but I think the rules have since changed)

If so, then the First Officer IS "Captain Qualified", no?

I'm pretty sure the intent of the wording of your FOM does not mean for a First Officer to "check first to see if there are any available Captains sitting in the back of the bus before you assume command."

 

[241BlujucCktl]

Just typing aloud here, and yes I misspell so get over it. Wondering if the charges being brought against this captain is a government strategy to ensure that no matter what the diagnosis, he will never fly again. Your thoughts...

 

[LearLove]

The FO did an amazing job by realizing there was a critical situation brewing that required him to perform an action that is minimally discussed and practically never practiced, and assumed command when the situation warranted it. The landing of the airplane was incidental.

If the media is correct wrt reporting the FO's name, I can say he is a great guy and sharp pilot having worked with him at a previous airline.

 

[IBNAV8R]

Our FOM has some pretty specific language about what happens when a pilot is incapacitated, like this case. A Captain-qualified available pilot assumes command when the Captain is incapacitated, period.

Then I stand corrected. Our FOM is somewhat different.

 

[glasspilot1]

It's like the famous old interview question:

As a new hire at TWA I heard it this way:

The Captain passes out, the F/O calls "Bruce" (aren't all male F/A's named Bruce?). Bruce enters the cockpit: "Yes"?

Get this dead SOB out of MY seat!

 

[satpak77]

Again, "good job" to the FO. Well done.

 

[UpNDownGuy]

So the question is, are both pilots type rated in the aircraft? (It's been a long time since I last flew domestic 2 pilot operations; back then the FO did not need a type rating, but I think the rules have since changed)

If so, then the First Officer IS "Captain Qualified", no?

I'm pretty sure the intent of the wording of your FOM does not mean for a First Officer to "check first to see if there are any available Captains sitting in the back of the bus before you assume command."

The FO has a FO-only "type rating", which qualifies him to be a FO. He/she is not qualified as a CA.

Yes, the intent of the FOM is to put a CA in the left seat, if one is on the plane. Absent a CA on the plane, the FO assumes command.

 

[UpNDownGuy]

Then I stand corrected. Our FOM is somewhat different.

Our everything is different, not just the FOM.

 

[XR650R]

Okay, I think we've all beat the "who's in command" thing to death. More importantly, how is the Captain doing? I realize most will be private but is he out of the hospital? In Jail? Committed? Can anyone comment on whether it's been determined if there was a pathology involved..ie a tumor? I'm curious because the Feds didn't waste any time filing charges. I found that to be rather cold. If he truly is sick, like something that was undiagnosed, could the charges be dropped?

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Maybe someone put LSD or something like that in his coffee!

 

[satpak77]

Okay, I think we've all beat the "who's in command" thing to death. More importantly, how is the Captain doing? I realize most will be private but is he out of the hospital? In Jail? Committed? Can anyone comment on whether it's been determined if there was a pathology involved..ie a tumor? I'm curious because the Feds didn't waste any time filing charges. I found that to be rather cold. If he truly is sick, like something that was undiagnosed, could the charges be dropped?

That will be up to judge, and only if prosecutor comes to judge asking for it to be dropped. Possible, yes. Likely ? probably 50/50 chance.

remember, this ended with no innocent lives hurt/lost. what would have happened if they crashed into a field, nose down, because the Captain acted up, medical condition or not. Say the Captain is the only guy who walked away, everyone else, dead. Does the end result change whether charges "should" be pressed or not ? Etc etc. We could discuss this forever and ever.

This case is new un-broken territory, lets see how it plays out.

 

[crxpilot]

That will be up to judge, and only if prosecutor comes to judge asking for it to be dropped. Possible, yes. Likely ? probably 50/50 chance.

remember, this ended with no innocent lives hurt/lost. what would have happened if they crashed into a field, nose down, because the Captain acted up, medical condition or not. Say the Captain is the only guy who walked away, everyone else, dead. Does the end result change whether charges "should" be pressed or not ? Etc etc. We could discuss this forever and ever.

This case is new un-broken territory, lets see how it plays out.

All "speculation". Did he ever actually do anything contrary with the flight controls? What did he do other than exercise his freedom of expression? Did his words cause the plane to turn upside down? The prosecuter will have nothing to stand on when its over with. I think his attorney will eat them alive before its over with.

 

[Floatplane]

All "speculation". Did he ever actually do anything contrary with the flight controls? What did he do other than exercise his freedom of expression? Did his words cause the plane to turn upside down? The prosecuter will have nothing to stand on when its over with. I think his attorney will eat them alive before its over with.

You might want to re-read the FAR's! He broke so many of them that he should never be allowed to enter a cockpit ever again. I think his attorney has his work cut out for him.

All that being said, it's a very sad event that happened and he needs all the help he can get. The rest of his life is up to him and the courts. Good luck to him and his family.

 

[Floatplane]

Regardless of what the cause of this breakdown was, he should never be allowed to pilot an airplane again. Would you let your family on an aircraft with him at the controls? I think not!

 

[Blue Dude]

Regardless of what the cause of this breakdown was, he should never be allowed to pilot an airplane again.

That's one hell of an assumption you just made. Why don't you find out the facts before you say something you'll regret later?