JetBlue CEO on pilot’s mid-air meltdown: ‘It started medical, but clearly wasn’t’

[coogebeachhotel]

Come on Simon. You are really hung up on the "captain is God" thing. This isn't a nuclear submarine.... He was clearly mentally incapacitated and the FO did the right thing. Period...

You seem to be the only one that doesn't understand that the captain doesn't have the right to bring down the airplane, simply because he is the captian.

With a complex like yours, I am glad I never flew with you. Wouldn't be enough room in the cockpit for both our heads.

This FO did an amazing job. +1

 

[gringo]

I think the real question that begs to be asked,


Did the F/O get to log PIC for the time the former Capt. was under a stack of passengers?

Separate logbook column?

Opine?

It's like the famous old interview question:

Q: "You're at 36,000' over the Atlantic, and the Captain slumps over, dead. What do you do?"

A: "You mean, after I move him out of my seat?"

 

[pal]

From what I gather, he was into fitness/healthy lifestyle. He also sold ViSalus products (drinks, vitamins, etc - centered around shake mix meals) on the side. I don't think there's a link between what happened to him and the products. He had been on ViSalus products since 20 July 2011 (that information came from his ViSalus webpage).
He has a ViSalus distributor webpage but I'm not going to post a link to it because it contains his phone number and other personal information, including photos. There are also hints on his webpage that he is deeply religious - but I don't think that there are any connections between his religious beliefs and this incident.

For those who want more information/are curious about ViSalus products, here's a link: http://www.visalusshakes.com/

One thing is almost certain, he was clearly influenced by some interruption of proper brain function. This individual, like most, would have never behaved in such a way otherwise. I personally think he was as much a victim of circumstance as the passengers of the aircraft. It may sound odd, but my first thought was whether his "diet" may have induced blood sugar issues... Hypoglycemia (low blood sugar) can be very dangerous and has a list of symptoms it takes a book to document. Unfortunately, if his blood sugar stabilized by the time anyone thinks to check it, if at all, he could appear to be free of a medical problem which might lead to misdiagnosis. Obviously, there are a number of other ailments that can impact brain function. I just hope they figure this out and are able to help the guy.

 

[SplitBar]

Still against the rules!!

Not all rules apply when under an emergency. Ever hear of deviation authority?

 

[IBNAV8R]

Not faulting the F/O as there is no question as to the Captain's "incapacitation." But I don't see how the Captain can be charged with interfering.

FAR121.533(e)
"Each pilot in command has full control and authority in the operation of the aircraft, without limitation, over other crewmembers and their duties during flight time, whether or not he holds valid certificates authorizing him to perform the duties of those crewmembers."

 

[Bringupthebird]

Anyone remember Egypt Air?

 

[wscrj]

Couple thoughts,

Once the FO assumed command, the CA was no longer the CA. I'm sure even a lawyer could make that point.

Second, and more open ended here. Would we feel differently about this incident if it was the Non-reving pilot who lost it? Or any of the passengers in back?

I don't like seeing him charged. I think it's obvious he didn't premeditate this event.

I think the system worked very well. Crew and pax took immediate and appropriate action to end the undesired state. We don't need to change a thing.

 

[satpak77]

I didn't know the FO's actions was this hard to understand.

 

[B-atch]

I think the real question that begs to be asked,


Did the F/O get to log PIC for the time the former Capt. was under a stack of passengers?

Separate logbook column?

Opine?

...Yes, but he is only allowed to log the landing....
and only if he sat in the left seat and attempted to adjust the vertical with the WRONG hand..

 

[BigMeat]

Luckily since the JB pilots are dressed pretty much like their flight attendants the cabin just thought it was another nutso flight attendant and remained calm...

 

[UpNDownGuy]

I think the real question that begs to be asked,


Did the F/O get to log PIC for the time the former Capt. was under a stack of passengers?

Separate logbook column?

Opine?

Theoretically, he could log the time from when he locked Osbon out of the cockpit, up to the point the non-rev CA assumed command.
Not sure if I'd want that particular entry in my logbook though.

 

[airplane wizard]

This FO did an amazing job. +1

WOW....he landed the big scary airplane all by himself...imagine that

 

[igneousy2]

I think the real question that begs to be asked,


Did the F/O get to log PIC for the time the former Capt. was under a stack of passengers?

Separate logbook column?

Opine?

Logging? Who gives a d*amn about logging! Does he start geting the Captain pay rate and at what point? from the initial rant? from when the captain was locked out? Or do we have to wait for the Captain to be fully restrained in the aisle?

Another more important point...I presume the FO is not THE senior FO at JetBlue so therefore any FO senior to this FO was by-passed at the point that this FO became Captain...so I think some money is owed. Do you think senior FO's to have a case for by-pass pay would have to have been flying at that exact moment...or is it merely enough to have been flying on the same day?

I hope he made the non-revving Captain take the FO's seat because that sure is going to work against him in the grievance arbitration, or at least shorten the time and therefore lessen the money that this FO and everybody else is going to be entitled to!

Oh, the questions!

 

[gringo]

WOW....he landed the big scary airplane all by himself...imagine that

That's not the point being made Wizard. The FO did an amazing job by realizing there was a critical situation brewing that required him to perform an action that is minimally discussed and practically never practiced, and assumed command when the situation warranted it. The landing of the airplane was incidental.

I can't believe so many otherwise intelligent pilots are having such a hard time understanding such a simple concept.

I might have to start driving more and non-revving less.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

I can't believe so many otherwise intelligent pilots are having such a hard time understanding such a simple concept.

Sure you can

 

[embpic1]

That's not the point being made Wizard. The FO did an amazing job by realizing there was a critical situation brewing that required him to perform an action that is minimally discussed and practically never practiced, and assumed command when the situation warranted it. The landing of the airplane was incidental.

Yup.... A job well done to the FO.


I also feel for this guy. If it turns out he had a medical condition that came on suddenly that made him no longer fit to fly (seems likely) then I think he needs some relief here. Hopefully he recovers from this, and when he does he sure doesn't need to be facing jail time.

 

[gringo]

Sure you can

Sadly, you're right.

 

[IBNAV8R]

Theoretically, he could log the time from when he locked Osbon out of the cockpit, up to the point the non-rev CA assumed command.
Not sure if I'd want that particular entry in my logbook though.

The other captain "assisted". He did not take command.

 

[Blue Dude]

The other captain "assisted". He did not take command.

Not necessarily true. If he was a current and qualified JB captain, he would be expected to take command. By that point, though, the crucial decision to take over from the captain had already been made by the FO, so that takes absolutely nothing away from him. I'm sure the non-rev's captain's role will be clarified later when a proper analysis is finished.

 

[ackattacker]

2) This incident might not be psychological in nature either. There may be something physically wrong to account for his behavior. By all accounts, it wasn't typical.

I'm not trying to pick on you Blue Dude, but this comment gets me a bit riled up. There is a stigma in this country for having mental issues unless they are "medical", as in, if you get cancer that is an understandable medical issue but if you have mental issues/depression/breakdown that is a sign of weakness or poor character. In reality most mental issues are just as random, just as "physical", and more devastating. They are just less understood.