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jetBlue Captain Pay?

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Well, Intruder, I could make the argument that JB raised the bar, not lowered it. You appear upset that JB didn't spring into existence as a major airline, with a major airline contract. How could it? However, the pay at JetBlue is better than any other three yr old airline has been, better than any but most (not all) major airlines now. What about the pay at Spirit, Frontier, National (gone now), Vanguard (also gone), Southeast, Allegiant, and even America West? They all have (or had) less pay and benefits than JetBlue offers and they all have (or had) been around longer than JetBlue. And you say it's JetBlue dragging down industry wages?

You appear upset only that JetBlue dares to be successful as opposed to bleeding like most others, not that it doesn't pay as well as you want them to. Otherwise you would pick on the lowest paid carrier, which is certainly not JetBlue. That's just sour grapes, man, get over it.

I'm sure you are happy with what you make and are not concerned about pilots at other carriers

An understatement. I could not possibly care less about pay scales at other airlines. I am content with my own pay and that's good enough for me. If it never increased except for inflation, I would remain content. I see no reason to trash an employer that offers me a job that I enjoy, and that provides a very adequate income that my family counts on, just so that people like you will think better of me. That seems to be your problem to solve, not mine.

I owe no duty to the industry, the profession, etc. that is any higher than the duty I owe to myself and my own family. To believe otherwise is socialism, by definition. If the wages and working conditions aren't good enough for you, don't participate. But you have no right to demand that I not be satisfied with them and not participate.

And now I'll head off the predictable "argument" to come, the scab ploy. I sound just like a scab talking so I must really be one or would be one, right? Well, no, I wouldn't. The reason why is because if I did scab, the job would not longer be enjoyable and no longer worth the sacrifices. Social pressure does work, but it's not to be confused with acting for the "greater good", whatever monstrosity that happens to be at the time. First and foremost, I would act in my own self-interest. Therefore, I would either walk a picket line if the reasons for doing so were good enough, or I would quit and do something else. Fortunately, I am not concerned about having to make that choice in the foreseeable future.
 
In addition, I believe it was UAL 78 that said something to the effect that he'd fly for peanuts to save his airline. He stated this back in February or so. Also, if you haven't realized it yet, one of the interviewees last week at JB was a 12-13 yr captain at UAL. There was also a 96 yr hire and a 98 yr hire from UA. If you wish to look at who is destroying airline pay, look at UA, because that is EXACTLY who NWA DAL AA are looking at, NOT JB.
 
Re: JB Pay

kwijybo said:
I would expect that our wages might not shoot up anytime soon, but compared to SWA they are pretty good, pound for pound. They have a fleet of 300 or so airplanes.


Compared to SWA? Well here are our 10 year CA rates for the next few years.

9/02..................$149.27 /hr
9/03..................$155.24 /hr
9/04..................$176.37 /hr
9/05..................$182.55 /hr
9/06..................$193.53 /hr
 
A raise will happen

Blue Dude said:
"I am content with my own pay and that's good enough for me. If it never increased except for inflation, I would remain content."


Now before all you guys slam away at all JetBlue pilots let me assure you that Blue Dude is most definitely speaking only for himself and not for anyone else. Many pilots at JetBlue (myself included) feel differently on this issue. Bottom line: OF COURSE JetBlue captain pay is below industry standard and needs to be raised. I think that's obvious - just look at SWA. But the point is we are still a very new airline and these things don't happen all at once.

Both management and line pilots are well aware of how JBLU captain pay stacks up against SWA and Song. And given how well the company is doing (profit margin well into the double digits) I think it's only right that the pilots will want a piece of the pie for themselves. Which is only fair - we work **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** hard, among the most productive pilots in the industry (many if not most fly 80 - 85 hard BLOCK hours every month).

My own view of this matter is I am willing to give the company some more time to address this issue. They have always done right by us in the past....so I am will give them the opportunity to do so here as well - to walk the walk, if you will. I would be very surprised if our pay stays where it is now for much longer.

Regarding Bluie Dude's comment: If our pay was permanently locked where it is now, leaving us pilots out in the cold and not sharing in the growth and profitibility of the company that we work so hard for.....well, I only see bad things coming out of that. Serious morale problems, turnover when the industry improves and other airlines return to hiring mode, unionization, an adverserial relationship between management and labor, etc. etc. And since management at JBLU is smart enough to avoid those things....I will expect a raise sometime in the next 1 - 2 years. But we shall see, all this is MHO of course.

BTW, don't buy into it when some Blue-Aid drinkers tell you non-JetBlue pilots we don't need a raise cause we make a fortune in profit sharing. We do get some pretty healthy profit sharing, that's true. But what they are not telling you is all that profit sharing (every penny of it) is locked up until retirement age. So for many of us that's 20-30 years before we can even touch a dime of that profit sharing. Doesn't exactly help pay the mortgage or put the kids through college now does it? Don't get me wrong - retirement is important and I'll happily take my profit sharing every year. But to suggest we don't need a raise cause of that profit sharing is just plain wrong. I can't pay my bills with money I have no access to. Just my 2 cents....
 
Re: A raise will happen

Post on 2/4/2003:

Kid Charlemagne said:
dgs......

You said that no one gets an unfair advantage for interviewing at JBLU just because they know someone already working there. I understand that. But what about affirmative action? I understand this is a factor.....any idea how much weight it carries? :eek:

Post on 2/5/2003:

Kid Charlemagne said:
Story I heard is that JetBlue is not only off the hook as far as aircraft payments go, but that they also pay nothing for maintenance and even fuel for their whole fleet. Sounds like a heck of a deal they struck with Airbus.....

Now it's April 15, and he's already a Captain at JetBlue:

Kid Charlemagne said:


Hey JayDub,

Newsflash....yes, I really am a JetBlue captain...

It's now May 5th:

Kid Charlemagne said:
Blue Dude said:
"I am content with my own pay and that's good enough for me. If it never increased except for inflation, I would remain content."


Now before all you guys slam away at all JetBlue pilots let me assure you that Blue Dude is most definitely speaking only for himself and not for anyone else. Many pilots at JetBlue (myself included) feel differently on this issue.

Still pretending, eh Kid?????
 
Kid Charlemagne wrote:
quote...
BTW, don't buy into it when some Blue-Aid drinkers tell you non-JetBlue pilots we don't need a raise cause we make a fortune in profit sharing. We do get some pretty healthy profit sharing, that's true. But what they are not telling you is all that profit sharing (every penny of it) is locked up until retirement age. So for many of us that's 20-30 years before we can even touch a dime of that profit sharing. Doesn't exactly help pay the mortgage or put the kids through college now does it? Don't get me wrong - retirement is important and I'll happily take my profit sharing every year. But to suggest we don't need a raise cause of that profit sharing is just plain wrong. I can't pay my bills with money I have no access to. Just my 2 cents....


Hey Kid..

Let me give you a little tip....when you retire, you need $$ to live on. That nice little profit sharing works wonders. David Neeleman seems rather rabid on retirement savings, and this is just one way of making sure you will be able to pay your mortgage and kids education once you retire. I think it's great that it is structured as CASH into your 401K instead of stock. At least CASH won't disappear in 20 years. Many UAL guys were force-fed over 5000 shares of stock that they couldn't touch....that stock is now worthless (was worth half a mil, if only they could sell it). Your compensation package is well thought out.

Skirt
 
Last edited:
Skank said:
Intruder, NYRangers, and other dim bulbs:

Thanks for all the concern about our pay...

I think you may want to worry about the direction your pay is headed, and spend a little less time thinking about our pay.


Actually, that is exactly what we are doing.
 
FlyDeltasJets said:
Actually, that is exactly what we are doing.

Since you obviously work at one of the "big majors", and so do I, here are two questions for you (or anyone else who wants to chime in)....

How much is work environment worth?
How much is trustworthy, smart, ethical leadership worth?

I ask you because we both make more than JB does, but I think our company(s) fail in the two above areas. If you couldn't have it both ways,
which way would you prefer?

Skirt
 
Good question (and an easy one!).

I would LOVE to have a good working relationship with management. I hope that both sides work towards that. I don't feel that high pay and good feelings are mutually exclusive, Delta used to enjoy both. I hope someday we return to those days.

In the meantime, however, I'd much rather higher salaries, better workrules, bigger pensions, better benefits. While smiles, handshakes, leather jackets and pizza parties
are nice, they don't feed the family or pay the mortgage.

It would be nice to have industry leading pay AND a good relationship with mgt.
If I could only choose one, however, give me the money. If I want happy
feelings, I'll join a cult.

In the immortal words of a famous gangster:

"F-You...Pay me."
 
To Jay Dub

I really don't care what JB does any more than the other LCC's it's just that was the topic of this post.Any of the others I'd done the same thing.

Retirement as far as profit sharing goes,I didn't know you couldn't it get until retirement oh oh oh.Hopes it protected somehow or that might be bad news down the road.
 

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