JETBLUE Anti-union tactics

[Fins Up]

It appears jetblue management is putting on the full court press by targeting the junior folks to convince them not to vote for a CBA. Below is an excerpt from the bluepilots website. (I do not have proof, but this is what's going through the grapevine.)

"Not sure if this was in another thread or not, but just got visual email confirmation on how they are targeting the newbies.

< 1yr FO got a call from a "pilot on the drive" inviting him to Boston. I can only assume this was a BOOB as he did not want to identify what pilot called him. Then gets texts from another mgmt type. All expense paid. Hotel, Food, Attend a Dog & Pony Show. In Boston.
Here is the kicker: Company will BUY HIS RESERVE Days off him to do this. Never mind that we are short, and putting out RSAs on a regular basis.

This is why there is so much focus on Boston. Sad and pathetic they have to pay people to come to these meetings. I actually think it's an outrage."

If this is true, it could be construed as vote tampering. Company better be careful.

New folks - Take it from an 8 year guy who, when I started, wanted nothing to do with unions. I have swung the full 180 degrees from NO to YES to Organizing Committee. WE NEED A CBA. Our professional well-being, individually and collectively, is not the company's priority. The only people who will look out for us is US. A strong voter turnout with a very large YES vote (I'm hoping for 80+%) will help us in negotiations.

(Def: "BOOB" equals "BOB" equals "Band of Blue" which references a former group of anti-CBA folks during a previous vote. Thankfully, many of them have seen the light and joined the fight.

 

[Smarta$$]

It appears jetblue management is putting on the full court press by targeting the junior folks to convince them not to vote for a CBA. Below is an excerpt from the bluepilots website. (I do not have proof, but this is what's going through the grapevine.)

"Not sure if this was in another thread or not, but just got visual email confirmation on how they are targeting the newbies.

< 1yr FO got a call from a "pilot on the drive" inviting him to Boston. I can only assume this was a BOOB as he did not want to identify what pilot called him. Then gets texts from another mgmt type. All expense paid. Hotel, Food, Attend a Dog & Pony Show. In Boston.
Here is the kicker: Company will BUY HIS RESERVE Days off him to do this. Never mind that we are short, and putting out RSAs on a regular basis.

This is why there is so much focus on Boston. Sad and pathetic they have to pay people to come to these meetings. I actually think it's an outrage."

If this is true, it could be construed as vote tampering. Company better be careful.

New folks - Take it from an 8 year guy who, when I started, wanted nothing to do with unions. I have swung the full 180 degrees from NO to YES to Organizing Committee. WE NEED A CBA. Our professional well-being, individually and collectively, is not the company's priority. The only people who will look out for us is US. A strong voter turnout with a very large YES vote (I'm hoping for 80+%) will help us in negotiations.

(Def: "BOOB" equals "BOB" equals "Band of Blue" which references a former group of anti-CBA folks during a previous vote. Thankfully, many of them have seen the light and joined the fight.

Good idea to put this on other boards as most new hires don't go to bluepilots.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Good idea to put this on other boards as most new hires don't go to bluepilots.

For good reason. That place is toxic. I'm a yes vote, but I do not like the jerks on bluepilots. Thankfully I've either never run into one in real life, or their internet hubris doesn't extend to the real world.

I'm betting it's the latter.

 

[clickclickboom]

This move is transparent to say the least. Almost all of the newer guys know the game. Only the small minority here are completely blind or apathetic. What surprises me is that some of few no votes i have met probably cant get hired at delta or united for various reasons. You would think they are yes votes but they are not.

There are about a dozen FO's that I am good friends with from flying with them every single one of them are solid yes votes understand our position and see the need for representation. The common theme I hear is that they are so happy to be here but cant believe that they are seeing the same takeaways they saw at their regional.

These guys are smart and know the game many of them had been abused at their regional and the fake " I care about your opinion " dog and pony show is obvious as desperation to try and split the vote.

The ELT and flt ops leadership are being bonused to split this vote DONT FALL FOR IT. Stand tall with your brothers and show unity.

When i came here I was a union hater. Our last company was in the midst of unionizing and I left because i didnt want to have anything to do with it. When i came here I literally hated unions.

In 9+ years I have watch the direct relationship take from me and my family. Today I am an airline captain with medical bills in collections because I cant afford to pay the huge bills due because of our horrible healthcare. This was implemented the same year we made historic record profits and our management team paid themselves over $20,000,000 in additional bonuses on top of their 48% pay raise.

Nothing worse then getting your child covered therapy doing it for 2 months and them gettting a payment denial from your company insured insurer and a bill from the hospital for $6500....

Ask the questions, get the facts, and realize that every single piece of management delivered propaganda is massaged by third party experts to pry on your emotions.

Contrary to 3rd party propaganda voting in APLA will not bankrupt the company. ALPA airlines with contracts are thriving !!!

Stand tall Vote Yes !!!!

 

[Fins Up]

For good reason. That place is toxic. I'm a yes vote, but I do not like the jerks on bluepilots. Thankfully I've either never run into one in real life, or their internet hubris doesn't extend to the real world.

I'm betting it's the latter.

Bluepilots is an...interesting place. I took I hiatus from it for about three years, but I am back to frequenting the site. Despite all the emotion on the board, there is very good information to be found. You just have to have a very active filter.

I don't want to derail the conversation. Back on point - There is another aspect of this for me personally I would offer for consideration. Occasionally I hear somebody say, "All I ever got from ALPA was a magazine." This drives me nuts. ALPA is responsible for or contributed to (just a short list):

- Precision and full approach lighting systems
- Grooving and friction treatment for runways
- REILs and markings
- Runway electronic or vertical guidance
- Radar approach coverage for all airport terminal areas.
- Runway distance remaining markers.
- Procedures for use of CVR tapes or transcripts during court proceedings.
- RVSM
- Improved taxiway signage to help prevent runway incursions.
- Volcanic ash avoidance
- KCM

ALL airline pilots, include JetBlue pilots, benefit from these things. Maybe, in addition to availing ourselves to ALPA's services, we should also start contributing to our profession.

 

[Smarta$$]

For good reason. That place is toxic. I'm a yes vote, but I do not like the jerks on bluepilots. Thankfully I've either never run into one in real life, or their internet hubris doesn't extend to the real world.

I'm betting it's the latter.

I agree. Like Fins said, some good info, but requires an epic (my word) filter.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

I agree. Like Fins said, some good info, but requires an epic (my word) filter.

lol. Yes. There's good info there. I wish that more people used it, as that would dilute the BS, and also provide more good discussion.

 

[BuckMurdock1]

While I do disagree with their tactics..and one could argue that that pilots attendance was not optional (as in bought off his RSV days); at least they're not going the other direction---FEAR. ..As in targeting the "undesirables/vocal supporters" for extermination.
At VX, it's no secret that we're next in line for a drive with ALPA after they've secure B6 --difference is that we're in an 'at will' employment state. They could decide tomorrow to fire me for essentially no reason; kinda scary (and one of about 10 reasons I'll be a yes vote). I won't be surprised if they try the FEAR tactics when our drive is in full swing.

 

[XJohXJ]

lol. Yes. There's good info there. I wish that more people used it, as that would dilute the BS, and also provide more good discussion.

I'd like to at least look at it, but have been unable to log in for months. Emails to the admins go unanswered.

 

[HRDiva]

While I do disagree with their tactics..and one could argue that that pilots attendance was not optional (as in bought off his RSV days); at least they're not going the other direction---FEAR. ..As in targeting the "undesirables/vocal supporters" for extermination.
At VX, it's no secret that we're next in line for a drive with ALPA after they've secure B6 --difference is that we're in an 'at will' employment state. They could decide tomorrow to fire me for essentially no reason; kinda scary (and one of about 10 reasons I'll be a yes vote). I won't be surprised if they try the FEAR tactics when our drive is in full swing.

All states are, although it is very limited in Montana and there are some with exceptions.

 

[clickclickboom]

Fear will be Daves state of the airline speech the day before voting opens.. He is going to basically say that the pilots unionizing will put the career of each and every employee in jeopardy.

He will say it because his job and future depends on it. The vote passes and dave will be gone in less than 30 days Robin hayes will slide into position and Rob will be spending more time with his family if he is not already doing so.

Dont fall for it.. Its the final chapter in union busting 101 turn the employee groups on each other..

Looksing forward to voting yes and finally having some unity with my brothers and sisters here at blue. We can get a fair contract that protects our careers and our families and stil provide a huge benefit to our ELT.

IT IS THEIR RESPONSIBILTY to run this airline. Hiring labor consultants to chip away at employee pay and benefits is not a strategy our ELT should be using.

This was not brought about by the pilots. The ACTIONS of our leadership led to this drive.

VOTE YES

 

[8vATE]

amen !

 

[pilotpayne]

For good reason. That place is toxic. I'm a yes vote, but I do not like the jerks on bluepilots. Thankfully I've either never run into one in real life, or their internet hubris doesn't extend to the real world.

I'm betting it's the latter.

It's the latter.

I would love to know who those guys are so I know who not to vote for, should they run for MEC/LEC.

 

[pilotpayne]

Fear will be Daves state of the airline speech the day before voting opens.. He is going to basically say that the pilots unionizing will put the career of each and every employee in jeopardy.

He will say it because his job and future depends on it. The vote passes and dave will be gone in less than 30 days Robin hayes will slide into position and Rob will be spending more time with his family if he is not already doing so.

Dont fall for it.. Its the final chapter in union busting 101 turn the employee groups on each other..

Looksing forward to voting yes and finally having some unity with my brothers and sisters here at blue. We can get a fair contract that protects our careers and our families and stil provide a huge benefit to our ELT.

IT IS THEIR RESPONSIBILTY to run this airline. Hiring labor consultants to chip away at employee pay and benefits is not a strategy our ELT should be using.

This was not brought about by the pilots. The ACTIONS of our leadership led to this drive.

VOTE YES

Exactly right.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

It's the latter.



I would love to know who those guys are so I know who not to vote for, should they run for MEC/LEC.

Precisely.

 

[hyperboy]

Ok

It appears jetblue management is putting on the full court press by targeting the junior folks to convince them not to vote for a CBA. Below is an excerpt from the bluepilots website. (I do not have proof, but this is what's going through the grapevine.)

"Not sure if this was in another thread or not, but just got visual email confirmation on how they are targeting the newbies.

< 1yr FO got a call from a "pilot on the drive" inviting him to Boston. I can only assume this was a BOOB as he did not want to identify what pilot called him. Then gets texts from another mgmt type. All expense paid. Hotel, Food, Attend a Dog & Pony Show. In Boston.
Here is the kicker: Company will BUY HIS RESERVE Days off him to do this. Never mind that we are short, and putting out RSAs on a regular basis.

This is why there is so much focus on Boston. Sad and pathetic they have to pay people to come to these meetings. I actually think it's an outrage."

If this is true, it could be construed as vote tampering. Company better be careful.

New folks - Take it from an 8 year guy who, when I started, wanted nothing to do with unions. I have swung the full 180 degrees from NO to YES to Organizing Committee. WE NEED A CBA. Our professional well-being, individually and collectively, is not the company's priority. The only people who will look out for us is US. A strong voter turnout with a very large YES vote (I'm hoping for 80+%) will help us in negotiations.

(Def: "BOOB" equals "BOB" equals "Band of Blue" which references a former group of anti-CBA folks during a previous vote. Thankfully, many of them have seen the light and joined the fight.

Look in the mirror?.....

http://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...ilots?-Union-Violated-Employees?#.Uy43jcu9KK0

 

[B6Busdriver]

Look in the mirror?.....

http://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...ilots?-Union-Violated-Employees?#.Uy43jcu9KK0

Yet the UAL pilots aren't seeking the Direct Relationship. Why is that?

 

[hyperboy]

Yet the UAL pilots aren't seeking the Direct Relationship. Why is that?

Not sure what United has to do with anything? Read it again


http://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...ilots?-Union-Violated-Employees?#.Uy43jcu9KK0

 

[Fins Up]

Look in the mirror?.....

http://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...ilots?-Union-Violated-Employees?#.Uy43jcu9KK0

Yet the UAL pilots aren't seeking the Direct Relationship. Why is that?

Not sure what United has to do with anything? Read it again


http://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...ilots?-Union-Violated-Employees?#.Uy43jcu9KK0

Hyperboy - The point B6Busdriver is making is that, while ALPA is not perfect by a long shot, there is not a single pilot group out there that is looking to get rid of their CBA and union representation to go with a Direct Relationship. ALPA has had it's problems. Nobody here expects them to be perfect and fix all of our issues. However, the direct relationship DOES - NOT - WORK. We need a better system than what we have now. An inhouse union would be weak and ineffectual. If there is another option you think is better, I'm all ears.

 

[bluesideup340]

Yet the UAL pilots aren't seeking the Direct Relationship. Why is that?

Because UAL pilots can't. Once a pilot group is represented by a Union you are stuck.
However, It would be great for ALPA to state public that they were wrong in the matter and that they take the appropriate steps to fix there internal labor issues.
That would be going a long way to establish credibility.

 

[RiddleEagle18]

Because UAL pilots can't. Once a pilot group is represented by a Union you are stuck.

However, It would be great for ALPA to state public that they were wrong in the matter and that they take the appropriate steps to fix there internal labor issues.

That would be going a long way to establish credibility.

Absolutley false. Any unionized employee group can decertify a union at anytime. Same process as unionizing. Collect cards and petition the NMB.

 

[Flyby1206]

Because UAL pilots can't. Once a pilot group is represented by a Union you are stuck.
However, It would be great for ALPA to state public that they were wrong in the matter and that they take the appropriate steps to fix there internal labor issues.
That would be going a long way to establish credibility.

http://www.unionfacts.com/article/union-member-resources/how-to-decertify-your-union/

Assuming ALPA vote succeeds in April the rules require that the new union is given 1 year before a de-certifying election can happen. If employees can collect 30% signatures then a decertifying election will be held.

I am very interested to see if the company and anti-union crowd will attempt to decertify. It wouldn't surprise me.

 

[hyperboy]

United?

Yet the UAL pilots aren't seeking the Direct Relationship. Why is that?

United?

Are you even aware of all the lawsuits United pilots have against ALPA? They have been going on for years. FYI

 

[Blue Dude]

United?

Are you even aware of all the lawsuits United pilots have against ALPA? They have been going on for years. FYI

You just helped make his point. Even with "all the lawsuits United pilots have against ALPA", they wouldn't think of trading their current representation arrangement for the Direct Relationship. They are sometimes very upset with the results, but they aren't at all interested giving away their representation and negotiation ability by going to an individual contract model. Warts and all, ALPA is still a better deal than what we have. Thanks for your support!

 

[bluesideup340]

Absolutley false. Any unionized employee group can decertify a union at anytime. Same process as unionizing. Collect cards and petition the NMB.

A work group that decertify has to have an alternative bargaining agent no way to ever go back to a non union direct relationship. Regardless, what your stand is on the unionization debate. Fact is, a work group can not take a union for a test drive, so to speak, and return to a non union environment later when the union performance is disappointing.

 

[bluesideup340]

You just helped make his point. Even with "all the lawsuits United pilots have against ALPA", they wouldn't think of trading their current representation arrangement for the Direct Relationship. They are sometimes very upset with the results, but they aren't at all interested giving away their representation and negotiation ability by going to an individual contract model. Warts and all, ALPA is still a better deal than what we have. Thanks for your support!

My point exactly, once you have a union you are stuck. Sounds like ALPA should engage in a bit more direct relation building with the pilot groups they represent. To be considered the lesser of two evil is really not good enough and should be reason for concern.
Is it ok to dismiss the lawsuits against ALPA or is this not an indication that their process is far from being perfect? Just to recap, ALPA is suit by their current (UAL) and former (TWA) members, and the JetBlue Pilots should be ok with it and not ask questions?

OK I get it, you do not like the direct relationship. But we have to face the fact, ALPA is not a great alternative. Understandably, JetBlue Pilots are pissed about the Health Care changes without pilot input. But where is the outrage about ALPAs collect dues from our 401K without a membership vote? Are you ok with ALPA leaders to impose changes that significantly increases my out of pocket expense without membership ratification?

 

[Blue Dude]

My point exactly, once you have a union you are stuck.

Not my point. My point was, you would have a hard time finding a UAL pilot who would want to drop their union status, not that they wouldn't be able to. Your claim isn't exactly a settled point of law either. Name a single pilot group who wanted to drop their representation status under the RLA and couldn't. Heck, name a single pilot group who wanted to drop their representation status under the RLA, period.

But where is the outrage about ALPAs collect dues from our 401K without a membership vote? Are you ok with ALPA leaders to impose changes that significantly increases my out of pocket expense without membership ratification?

I don't know exactly how that process went forward. My understanding is that they lowered the dues rate and at the same time dropped the exemption from paying dues on 401k contributions. This had the effect of lowering the dues amount slightly for junior pilots and raising it slightly for senior pilots. What's your beef exactly - that the MEC's (which were elected by their pilot groups for just such matters) needed ALPA-wide membership ratification of a relatively minor change to the dues structure? Maybe, but is that really worse than the DR, where our only input is non-binding surveys? Man, that's a stretch.

For what it's worth, I agree that our C&BL needs to include membership ratification of any material contract enactment or change, including any merger or integration offers. This is something we can and hopefully will do ourselves for our own pilot group, and any JetBlue MEC would be bound by it. A runaway MEC which makes career-level decisions without ratification concerns me much more than an MEC who votes on administrative level matters without ratification. There's just no real comparison.

 

[Splert]

Because UAL pilots can't. Once a pilot group is represented by a Union you are stuck.

Liar!

 

[clickclickboom]

If we vote in alpa and get absolutely nothing more than just a way to stop the 36 month plan by our elt then it will be a resounding success.

Think joel doesnt have a plan for a 30 plane jetblue " lite " flying our miles and conecting to our 60 international partners? think again

That would just be the beginning, anyone remember the year we get our insurance cancelled and thrown on the exchanges? is it 2016 or 2017?

 

[HRDiva]

That would just be the beginning, anyone remember the year we get our insurance cancelled and thrown on the exchanges? is it 2016 or 2017?

Then you would get better coverage than what you have now! No other major airline has coverage as horrible as your coverage.i am in HR and design my company's benefits for a living, soi know!