JetBlue and ALPA

[Smarta$$]

I also think it is critical to the majority not to vote for a bunch of senior Reps. They ALWAYS end up tilting deals to disproportionately benefit the top.

Vote good quality reps and make sure that all seniority is equally represented.

 

[Fins Up]

I also think it is critical to the majority not to vote for a bunch of senior Reps. They ALWAYS end up tilting deals to disproportionately benefit the top.

Vote good quality reps and make sure that all seniority is equally represented.

I think the silo model would be the way to go. Hopefully we will get to vote on these things some time this year.

 

[RiddleEagle18]

We had a "silo" structure at my last ALPA carrier. Not many are setup that way but I preferred it to the base style of representation.

 

[Lake Alice]

I would suggest an overwhelming amount if pilots volunteering on the OC's are more senior than junior. To that point the pilots are dead set on protecting the junior pilots. Whether it is through pay issues or seniority the group has learned from past mistakes and the mentality has changed.
Add to this the silo structure that would likely be voted in and the pilot group as a whole will share the wealth, benefits and most importantly protections.

 

[BeachBummer]

Hopefully we can get to that point. Ironically, there are many "self agrandizers" on the property who are the first to lead the anti-union campaign in order to preserve their "special" status.

Merrit pay... isn't that cool!

 

[AKAAB]

The best thing that could happen during the next drive is for bluepilots to be temporarily shut down.

Are you psychic or has the campaign actually started? (BP.com DOA today.)

 

[RiddleEagle18]

Which one of these letters feels dirty too you? Which one would you believe?



Fellow Pilots,
This is your PVC weekly update for March 24thst, 2013. This update provides information from this past week’s meetings with the Company and the development of a Protocol Agreement to guide and govern the meetings.
Protocol Agreement
This week, the PVC met with members of Flight Operations, JetBlue Legal, and the People Department. The focus of the meetings was to develop a protocol agreement to provide a structure to collaborate and develop changes to the PEA, PPA, FSM Governance, DRM, or the PVC Charter.

The PVC and the Company’s Representatives exchanged multiple protocol documents over a period of 3 days and the PVC made numerous compromises to find common ground between both parties. The PVC’s protocol agreements included the following core concepts:
1. Pilot Ratification to ensure the pilots have the opportunity for review, roadshows, and education prior to voting to accept or reject the changes
2. Access to Data to ensure the PVC and PWCs have the required information to make informed decisions and recommendations
3. Satisfying the legal framework to change each document. For example, the PPA expressly prohibits the PVC from exchanging scope for changes to the PEA (i.e. 2013 pay amendment) or the FSM.
4. A Deadline for the PEA changes that would allow JetBlue to offer them to the pilots without the PVC’s approval (i.e. 2013 Pay Amendment).

Unfortunately the company’s protocol agreements did not meet the core concepts from above or the legal requirements of the documents they are seeking to change. They insist that we waive the requirement for PVC agreement to change the PPA and other documents.
Due to these differences we have reached an impasse and are unwilling to continue the discussions without the protocol agreement we proposed because PVC Counsel advised that it would violate our governing document, the charter, and the other documents we are party to (PPA, FSM Governance, DRM).
We also want every pilot to recognize that there is a lot of change occurring in the airline industry right now. We need to keep an eye on developments and how they may affect our pilot group. This is particularly important to keep in mind when discussing any potential changes to our terms and conditions of employment.
We will continue to update you on any developments on these important issues. Should you have any questions or concerns please feel free to reach out to the PVC or your Seniority Block Representative.
Stay Informed and Fly Safe,
Your PVC


OR




JetBlue Pilots,



Last week was our first week of collaborative meetings with the PVC on the 2014 Compensation Review and Pilot Agreement. The purpose of our meetings was to set goals, protocols and objectives.



As Jeff Martin mentioned in his note to all of you, our PAR team is represented by System Chief Pilot Rich Carter, Director Values Relations Eric Carr and Director Employment Counsel Angela Corridan. The PVC has decided to hire Bill Wilder of Baptiste & Wilder to work for them during our collaboration and he was present at times. Mr. Wilder’s practice focuses on representing employees and labor organizations in the airline and rail industries covered by the Railway Labor Act. He represents pilots at carriers that are unionized by the International Brotherhood of Teamsters (IBT).



During our first week of collaboration, we found that there are fundamental differences in our approach to this review. For example:


· How to ensure that Pilots direct the decision as to whether any adjustments are made to the PPA and FSM.

JetBlue is very proud of our Direct Relationship and we want to ensure that each of you has a voice throughout the process. The PVC seems to prefer to act autonomously and control proposed changes. While your PVC is allowed great authority over proposed changes to the PPA and FSM, we believe that it should be your voice that directs them to make any decision during this process. As we are facing a myriad of industry changes that we honestly didn’t expect 2-3 years ago – our feeling is that your direct voice is needed to help navigate these new waters. Our Values Committees were created with the intention to help express your views so that we can act with your best interests in mind.


We would also like to take this opportunity to address some misinformation found in the most recent PVC communication. In that message the PVC inaccurately stated that JetBlue wishes to waive certain requirements of the five documents and that JetBlue has refused to establish a timeline for any amendments to be taken to you for your review. Please allow us to correct the record:

· First, the Company has never asked the PVC to ignore the requirements of the PPA or other documents. We asked that you, the individual JetBlue Pilot, be able to retain your individual voice and autonomy to guide them to make any potential changes to the PPA and FSM.

· Second, JetBlue’s timeline for completing the PAR is aggressive, compared to the PVC’s timeline.

In order to stay on track for a January 1, 2014 implementation date, we would need to bring the collaboration process to a close by this summer, in order to allow for system modifications. The process should focus on:


· Discussing and making decisions on some of your top priorities.

· Reviewing items JetBlue feels are necessary (enhancing OAL partnerships and reviewing efficiencies to increase revenue and stay financially strong - as stated in Jeff Martin’s note) when discussing a potentially substantial pay increase that will effect JetBlue’s financials.

We are hopeful that, despite our initial differences, we can continue to collaborate with the PVC on changes necessary to keep us competitive. Also, to mitigate any confusion in the future, moving forward we hope our messaging will be better aligned with the PVC.



Regards,



Eric, Rich and Angela

The PAR Team

 

[Frap]

That's great. Even more mud in the waters.

Folks, simply put, mother ALPA is the lesser of two evils. Flawed as they may be (oh, and they actually have done good things in the past), I wish to have them on my side versus trusting ANY airline management.

 

[Bluejob]

Thanks for posting this for all to see. I, for one, believe the PVC communication. Keep it out front!

 

[Fins Up]

That's great. Even more mud in the waters.

Folks, simply put, mother ALPA is the lesser of two evils. Flawed as they may be (oh, and they actually have done good things in the past), I wish to have them on my side versus trusting ANY airline management.

+1+1+1+1+1....

I have sat in the jumpseat with some senior USAir guys and DAL guys in the last two weeks. In both cases their opinions were the exact same. We (jetblue) need to have a CBA and, while they have no deep love of ALPA, they agreed that for getting an initial contract ALPA is the way to go.

 

[hoover84]

Why go with ALPA when we are having trouble getting 50% of our pilots to
vote yes? The in-house option would have far better participation. If a CBA is what we need go with the sure thing. Yes we all know its expensive......SWAPA did okay

 

[Fins Up]

Why go with ALPA when we are having trouble getting 50% of our pilots to
vote yes? The in-house option would have far better participation. If a CBA is what we need go with the sure thing. Yes we all know its expensive......SWAPA did okay

50% interest cards is way too low to ensure a vote victory. That is what is taking so long. After the last debacle, ALPA wants stronger numbers before filing.

SWAPA "did okay" because they had the blessing from management. We do not have that. Even if they suddenly "changed their minds" and said an in-house is okay, I wouldn't believe them. ALPA is the way to go - at least for an initial contract. I get as frustrated waiting as anyone else but we have to do it right and we only really have one more chance with ALPA. If we burn them again, they are DONE with us.

 

[Chronic Jetlag]

Why go with ALPA when we are having trouble getting 50% of our pilots to
vote yes? The in-house option would have far better participation. If a CBA is what we need go with the sure thing. Yes we all know its expensive......SWAPA did okay

As divided as JB pilots are, an in-house union would be worthless because no one will cough up the seed $$$ to get it off the ground. It will not have $$$, expertise, political clout...nothing; game over.

 

[Ski-N-Fly]

Why go with ALPA when we are having trouble getting 50% of our pilots to
vote yes? The in-house option would have far better participation. If a CBA is what we need go with the sure thing. Yes we all know its expensive......SWAPA did okay

To all those who want an In House, The only thing stopping you from starting one is......YOU. It's been tried before and failed. It will cost a lot more $$$ to start an In House than it will to get ALPA on the property. Good luck with that. We just don't have the resources. SWA's management is union friendly, as they welcomed their unionization. JetBlue management hates unions. Your uphill battle is pretty steep.

But imagine this.....having a union run by JetBlue pilots, elected by JetBlue pilots, and held accountable by JetBlue pilots. And at the same time, you would have access to the best aviation attorneys and doctors on the planet. It's called ALPA. Any union that is ALPA sponsored is actually an In House union with access to ALPA national's many resources. ALPA national does not control any of its sponsored unions. Every decision an ALPA sponsored union makes is up to its own pilots. YOU have the final say......not ALPA. Any bad experiences you may have had with an ALPA sponsored union is the fault of YOUR own airline's union.

This is a business decision. When making a business decision, it is far better to use logic instead of emotion. We need a union ASAP. Whether you want ALPA, In House, Teamsters, Mickey Mouse, etc, please just send in your cards so we can actually vote for some type of representation. Can we all agree that we need to be represented? Let's get past that step first. Send in your cards!

 

[jynxyjericho]

To all those who want an In House, The only thing stopping you from starting one is......YOU. It's been tried before and failed. It will cost a lot more $$$ to start an In House than it will to get ALPA on the property. Good luck with that. We just don't have the resources. SWA's management is union friendly, as they welcomed their unionization. JetBlue management hates unions. Your uphill battle is pretty steep.

But imagine this.....having a union run by JetBlue pilots, elected by JetBlue pilots, and held accountable by JetBlue pilots. And at the same time, you would have access to the best aviation attorneys and doctors on the planet. It's called ALPA. Any union that is ALPA sponsored is actually an In House union with access to ALPA national's many resources. ALPA national does not control any of its sponsored unions. Every decision an ALPA sponsored union makes is up to its own pilots. YOU have the final say......not ALPA. Any bad experiences you may have had with an ALPA sponsored union is the fault of YOUR own airline's union.

This is a business decision. When making a business decision, it is far better to use logic instead of emotion. We need a union ASAP. Whether you want ALPA, In House, Teamsters, Mickey Mouse, etc, please just send in your cards so we can actually vote for some type of representation. Can we all agree that we need to be represented? Let's get past that step first. Send in your cards!

Yeah but if everyone at JetBlue now doesn't want ALPA because they remember how bad their "local" ALPA was run at their previous carrier what would they have to look forward to? Not anymore, but we had a run of guys who would blow big bucks on booze and food for their friends because they used the union as a debit card. The circus has mostly left but I still heard a P2P rep telling his buddy on reserve that he could get him free food every day during the concessionary agreement education campaign. If your soon to be elected union rep believes union = free crap, instead of union = hard work, you're screwed and you should keep your money. Pilots who want to work hard realize they need ALPA and it's wealth of tools to succeed.

Some pilot groups do well with a union, some groups are better off sticking the dues in their pocket. If JetBlue pilots doesn't feel like ALPA can do anything for them, it's probably because they have no ambition to do anything to improve their lot. If you did want to improve your airline, at least if a majority of pilots did, you'd already have a union, in house or otherwise.

Maybe with one more failed union drive, JetBlue will get bought out by a union airline with a contract. Then the <49% of JetBlue pilots who want more from their airline in the way of pay and benefits will get what they want. The other >51% will simply win the lotto and likely complain about it because the SLI won't make any sense to them. Trust me the people who can't be bothered to read the contract are the same ones that can't be bothered to read the SLI award decision. You're better off being stapled, then everyone is unhappy but the process is so dumbed down they'll actually understand why they should be unhappy.

The flippant meter is running in the red tonight.

 

[GuppyPuppy]

Why go with ALPA when we are having trouble getting 50% of our pilots to
vote yes? The in-house option would have far better participation. If a CBA is what we need go with the sure thing. Yes we all know its expensive......SWAPA did okay

And in a perfect world we wouldn't need a union.

But, we don't live there.

Don't vote emotionally, vote logically.

GP

 

[hoover84]

We need our pilos vested in the new union. Any union with weak participation will be pushed around by the company.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

We need our pilos vested in the new union. Any union with weak participation will be pushed around by the company.

If a union is voted in, I think there will be good participation. The 49.9% that voted against it won't participate, but that won't make it weaker. Once there's a CBA it's not like the company can negotiate with the no voters separately.

 

[B6Busdriver]

We need our pilos vested in the new union. Any union with weak participation will be pushed around by the company.

For what your inhouse union will you'll really be vested. Thousands of dollars in assessments and higher dues with weaker representation. No thanks.

That said if you and your buddies that want an inhouse get their act together I'll sign a card.

 

[A350]

Hoover is right on.....

Further....you ALPA toters who think this is the cheaper way to go are being disingenuous. It costs x amout of dollars to unionize a pilot group, regardless of who is doing the representation.

The disingenuous part is that you don't want to cough up the resources out of your own pocket, you want to dip into the pockets of the other ALPA pilots for the resources and that is the pinnacle of hypocrisy.

Not to mention with that subsidy from ALPA for the organization comes the inevitable "strings attached" that is why most of us can't stand ALPA because they want to be a union but are really just a loose association which have policies that are just about as permeable as a bucket with no bottom. Further, at ALPA you will have a voice, but it will be the squeaky little voice way in the back of the room while the elephants like UAL and DAL get whatever THEY want whether you agree with it or not. It is just like government subsidy money for certain things for the states....play by their rules or they cut you off.

In house or nothing. If you believe, then you will pony up the money. If you don't want to pony up the money, then I guess you don't want it bad enough. Our own union will have the horsepower that WE provide. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't know about you, but I am a lot more willing to go to the mat when I spend my own money than when I spend someone elses'.

A350