Jet Blue = Good Stuff

[B6Busdriver]

This is the way it has been for years.. HOWEVER.. if you do as I asked above and go to the Majors section.. you will find our sticky threads that ask for your input on this matter as we look for ways to improve flight Info.. This matter is one of those questions..

I don't have an arguement for you.. BUt with 37 posts to your credit, you might want to take a lighter approach if you want to make a meaningful suggestion they we will really consider..

The sticky doesn't say jack. It sounds like someone ( moderator ) has his or her panties in a wad. Wow, we are not worthy to be in the majors section. Don't you have something better to do?

 

[av8tor4239]

I am against the ALPA push at JB right now.. I will vote, but my vote will be NO... Thank you!

 

[ArmadilloJackal]

That sounds a little like attacking the person and not the issue. Who cares how many posts I have. Can I still not make a valid point? I simply want to know what constitutes a major in the Flightinfo.com definition book. It seems a little arbitrary to me or whatever the moderators FEEL is a major. Having to switch forums to see current info is a usability problem for those looking to quickly browse new posts for Major airlines. I know I'll miss JB related stuff if it's in a different forum.

 

[B6Busdriver]

I am against the ALPA push at JB right now.. I will vote, but my vote will be NO... Thank you!

Do you care to share why?

 

[av8tor4239]

Do you care to share why?

As long as you do not rip my head off, and respect my opinion...

 

[cowboy55]

Im still trying to figure how proALPA guys say our 10% retirement is below average? I asked a few ALPA Coordinating Committee members and they don't even know what the average carrier gets. But they still tell me we are below average. Not the kind of people I want negotiating on my behalf.

 

[B6Busdriver]

Im still trying to figure how proALPA guys say our 10% retirement is below average? I asked a few ALPA Coordinating Committee members and they don't even know what the average carrier gets. But they still tell me we are below average. Not the kind of people I want negotiating on my behalf.

It's all in the latest OC newsletter that should have come to your house. It's also been covered in the PCRB report. We actually get 5% matching and 5% so called "guaranteed" profit sharing that is subject to board approval.

Here is the rest of the industry:

Air Tran.................Currently 10.5% increasing to 12.5% by 7/1/13
Alaska...................13.5% plus profit sharing
AA........................11% plus profit sharing plus a defined benefit
CO........................12.75% plus profit sharing
Delta.....................14% on 1/1/11 plus profit sharing
Hawaiian................15% plus profit sharing
Southwest..............9.3% plus profit sharing...................look at their pay!
United....................16% plus profit sharing
US Airways..............10% plus profit sharing.


Even if you are against a union I implore you to know your own benefits and how they compare to the rest of the industry.

 

[B6Busdriver]

As long as you do not rip my head off, and respect my opinion...

LOL. I'm tired of the emotion, let's here it! No head ripping, beatings, or tongue lashings.

 

[cowboy55]

I took all of their numbers and subtracted 2% for union dues. And the average came out to 10.673%. I would say we are just about average. Do they get profit sharing even when the company takes a loss? Not convincing enough.

 

[B6Busdriver]

I took all of their numbers and subtracted 2% for union dues. And the average came out to 10.673%. I would say we are just about average. Do they get profit sharing even when the company takes a loss? Not convincing enough.

You aren't even counting AA's B plan which would bring it well above your number. Furthermore the number I come up with is 12.5%. Add any profit sharing and the numbers go WAY up. WN payrates fund any shortfall in their retirement. Your profit sharing is NOT guaranteed. Stick your head in the sand if you like. As for dues it is 1.95% and to simply subtract that off your retirement is foolish. If you don't want a union that's fine but at least look at the facts. Figures lie and liars figure....or is the other way around?
See pages 8 and 9 of the 2008 PCRB report for all the deficiencies. In their findings the industry average is 13% vs 10% at JetBlue. It's even greater when you factor in the loss of interest with annual profit sharing payment.

I'll gladly pay 1.95% for scope, better merger protection, legal representation, health insurance on long term disability.....just to name a few. NO guarantees on what will be in a contract but at least we have an opportunity to negotiate.

 

[Splert]

I took all of their numbers and subtracted 2% for union dues. And the average came out to 10.673%. I would say we are just about average.

This year you would have a 20% contribution.

Do they get profit sharing even when the company takes a loss?

If the BOD declares it then yes.

Just to be clear profit sharing is based upon Operating Profit not Net Profit and JetBlue has had an operating profit since they unilaterally changed the profit sharing plan. PS should have been declared each year and would have been paid in addition to the PSIA 13%. Dave changed the plan because he financed this airline into the ground and he needed employees retirement funds to pay down the debt used to finance the crazy growth he needed to inflate the stock price and his options. D2 sold almost every single one of his options.


1.95% is also tax deductible.

PSIA 13% + Profit Sharing is tax deferred.

Equivalent $
(1.95% * [1 - r])
[(3% + PS) * (1 + r)]

Where 'r' is your tax rate.

At JetBlue we have to fund the gap in our below PSIA retirement with after tax dollars. It adds up FAST!!

 

[pilotyip]

How come

Dave changed the plan because he financed this airline into the ground and he needed employees retirement funds to pay down the debt used to finance the crazy growth he needed to inflate the stock price and his options. D2 sold almost every single one of his options.

So Dave should have created all the JB jobs for free?, how come all the employees did not buy up controlling interest in the stock and take control of the company? How pilots are so disdainful of people who create their jobs? I am not sure anyone has the answer, but just wondering.

 

[cowboy55]

Im so sure Splert knows why Dave makes his decisions. Your a pilot. You have no clue how Dave makes up his mind. All the pro ALPA guys make things up and lie to get your vote. Always saying, "Maurester said this" "Dave said that in my jumpseat". This pure speculation is getting old.

 

[Splert]

So Dave should have created all the JB jobs for free?, how come all the employees did not buy up controlling interest in the stock and take control of the company? How pilots are so disdainful of people who create their jobs? I am not sure anyone has the answer, but just wondering.

David held all his options.

Dave sold nearly all of his.

Our COO and CFO each hold zero shares direcly of B6.

No one should work for free and these guys changed our Profit Sharing plan to help pay down debt. Simple as that.

 

[Splert]

Im so sure Splert knows why Dave makes his decisions. Your a pilot. You have no clue how Dave makes up his mind. All the pro ALPA guys make things up and lie to get your vote. Always saying, "Maurester said this" "Dave said that in my jumpseat". This pure speculation is getting old.

Lie?

Where? Jetblue needed to pay down debt with cash and changing our benefit plans is the flexibility Jetblue loves.

Dave sold nearly all his shares. Our CFO and COO and most of our EVPs hold nearly zero shares directly. That to most observes means the leaders have very little confidence despite what they say.

 

[pilotyip]

David held all his options.

Dave sold nearly all of his.

Our COO and CFO each hold zero shares direcly of B6.

No one should work for free and these guys changed our Profit Sharing plan to help pay down debt. Simple as that.

and paying down debt, like Ford motor is bad?

 

[Splert]

Who said it was bad?

We provided the flexibility to use our benefits to help.

 

[cowboy55]

Lie?

Where? Jetblue needed to pay down debt with cash and changing our benefit plans is the flexibility Jetblue loves.

Dave sold nearly all his shares. Our CFO and COO and most of our EVPs hold nearly zero shares directly. That to most observes means the leaders have very little confidence despite what they say.

I am happy they sold their shares. It means they are smart people. I would have done it too. Dave helped start this company. He can do what he wants with his stocks just as many of us did. Who are you to judge one for when they sold their shares of the company. That is a private financial matter for these individuals only. But yet your desperation to start a union shows because you try to use that as fuel to burn your fire stronger. But in my opinion your throwing water on it to weaken your cause. I have been at 2 ALPA carriers before and know how ALPA doesn't work.

 

[Splert]

A Private matter that is reported to the SEC? Say what?

SWA's CFO is smart. Bet she holds her company shares Ours dumps then as soon as he gets them. You are right he is smart and has zero confidence in the share price appreciation of our company.

In your opinion our retirement is average when in fact it is below average We are 2.7 points plus profit sharing behind. This year we are 10 percentage points behind. That is $10,000 on a hundred thousand of income.

Your facts are wrong hence your opinion is also skewed. They go hand and hand.

Merry Christmas.

 

[pilotyip]

Who said it was bad?

sounded like you did?

 

[Splert]

Again your opinion is skewed.

Facts are facts. We are paying down debt. We had a 13% operating marging in the 3rd quarter. After debt financing we made a few points. Stripping away our benefit unilaterally to help provide flexibility to pay down debt helps our operating margin and the bottom line.

This year our retirement is at least 10 percentage points behind our peers. Jetblue loves that flexibility.

Good or bad agree or not those are the facts.

The cure for our agreed upon shortfall will be the issuance of restricted stock and to hold company stock which nearly our entire ELT dumps as soon as it vests. Those are the facts.

 

[cowboy55]

A Private matter that is reported to the SEC? Say what?

SWA's CFO is smart. Bet she holds her company shares Ours dumps then as soon as he gets them. You are right he is smart and has zero confidence in the share price appreciation of our company.

In your opinion our retirement is average when in fact it is below average We are 2.7 points plus profit sharing behind. This year we are 10 percentage points behind. That is $10,000 on a hundred thousand of income.

Your facts are wrong hence your opinion is also skewed. They go hand and hand.

Merry Christmas.

2.7% behind yes. But after paying 1.95% in union dues we are only .7% behind. As for profit sharing at other ALPA carriers, this is what was negotiated at Spirit this year. And they gave up premium pay. Way to go ALPA.

M. Profit-Sharing/Bonus Plan​

If the Company implements a profit-sharing/bonus plan for other employees,
pilots shall be included as participants in such plan(s) on the same terms and​

benefit levels.

Thats a fact. I have not seen the new Airtran language for profit sharing. But this is ALPA's most recent work. Prater signed off on it. Awesome! (sarcasm)

 

[BeachBummer]

2.7% behind yes. But after paying 1.95% in union dues we are only .7% behind. As for profit sharing at other ALPA carriers, this is what was negotiated at Spirit this year. And they gave up premium pay. Way to go ALPA.

M. Profit-Sharing/Bonus Plan
If the Company implements a profit-sharing/bonus plan for other employees,
pilots shall be included as participants in such plan(s) on the same terms and​

benefit levels.

Thats a fact. I have not seen the new Airtran language for profit sharing. But this is ALPA's most recent work. Prater signed off on it. Awesome! (sarcasm)

Cowboy55... or is it cowgirl? 8 posts and every one anti-alpa in one way or another... HI JENNY!

 

[Splert]

2.7% behind yes. But after paying 1.95% in union dues we are only .7% behind. As for profit sharing at other ALPA carriers, this is what was negotiated at Spirit this year. And they gave up premium pay. Way to go ALPA.

M. Profit-Sharing/Bonus Plan
If the Company implements a profit-sharing/bonus plan for other employees, pilots shall be included as participants in such plan(s) on the same terms and benefit levels.​

Thats a fact. I have not seen the new Airtran language for profit sharing. But this is ALPA's most recent work. Prater signed off on it. Awesome! (sarcasm)

Once again your math is incomplete and as such your facts are incorrect.

This year alone we are 10 percentage points behind and at Jetblue we have to make up the difference in retirement short fall with after tax dollars. For many of us that is 13 - 15 percentage points behind.

1.95 is tax deductible.

Your facts are flawed and as such your opinion is a ramble or pointless.

 

[Splert]

M. Profit-Sharing/Bonus Plan

If the Company implements a profit-sharing/bonus plan for other employees, pilots shall be included as participants in such plan(s) on the same terms and benefit levels.

Spirit has profit sharing.

The pilots are included.​

Simple. Lets do it.​

 

[cowboy55]

Your going to give up alot more in other areas to make up that 2.7%. I am former ALPA twice. And have been through negotiations. Some carriers need it. We don't. If you are a captain at JB for over 20 years, you will have easily given ALPA over 70,000$ minimum. You can't write off that much. You are another form of income to the union. Look at the Republic buyout of Midwest. ALPA helped them. (Sarcasm) ALPA represents several regional carriers who undercut each other in pay to get contracts. ALPA doesn't care. As long as they get their dues they are happy. We have it good here without the union.

 

[cowboy55]

Splert read the language. Ours is better. Sorry no Jenny here.

 

[Splert]

Your going to give up alot more in other areas to make up that 2.7%. I am former ALPA twice. And have been through negotiations. Some carriers need it. We don't. If you are a captain at JB for over 20 years, you will have easily given ALPA over 70,000$ minimum. You can't write off that much. You are another form of income to the union. Look at the Republic buyout of Midwest. ALPA helped them. (Sarcasm) ALPA represents several regional carriers who undercut each other in pay to get contracts. ALPA doesn't care. As long as they get their dues they are happy. We have it good here without the union.

Again your basic math is wrong and as such you are rambling.

 

[Splert]

Splert read the language. Ours is better. Sorry no Jenny here.

I have and your basic math is wrong.
If anyone else has a concern or a question please ask and I will provide the complete data.

Cowboy is misleading the readers on this board.

 

[cowboy55]

So are you