Jeff is Challenging Scope.

[145BOSS]

And either way, CAL did not give away scope. These flights are not listed as UA codeshare flights but as CO flights with CO flight numbers.

 

[DHPFLYN]

The regional and mainline pilots both need to get some balls and step up. You need to get together to stop this whole thing. Most of you mainline guys came from regionals so don't act as if you are all above the regional guys. As far as the regional guys who cares how the scope was lost but it's time to figure out how to get it back !! Flying 70 seat planes for that pay is nothing to brag about.

Work together and become one against management !!!! If we can figure this out we can win. Screw that railway act it's time to stand up and tell them how we all feel. If that means we all fly safe write everything up and nothing will ever be on time to last straw walk off the job. It sure works for the European pilots. They tell them what they are going to do and then do IT !!!

 

[Twisted Mind]

you guys need to take this attitude and shove it up your a$$. scope was not voted away, it was taken/stolen in ch11.

What?????? Nice piece of revisionary history. Was your company in CH11 when ALPA allowed Cessna 402's and other piston twins to be flown by contract carriers? How about Beech 99's? Dash 7 and 8's, Convair’s and Fokker’s? Then small RJ's. Remember Britt, Rocky Mountain, Bar Harbor?

 

[Twisted Mind]

I remember talking to Mesaba Captain that was angry about ALPA trying to “rearrange” the pay scale to help out the junior FO’s. He was telling me what a travesty it was that he would lose 1% of his pay raise and the FO’s would get a 5% raise. He just could not understand what is wrong with a FO sitting next to him making 20 G compared to his 80 G and what kind of statement that is to management.

 

[Mr.B]

Couldn't agree more.....

Specifically, the UAL scope clause (with regard to 70 seat airplanes) was voted away by one guy in a failed attempt to save a retirement plan.

Guys and gals flying these 70 seaters in UAL colors are kind of like the guy who goes to airshow with his Japanese Zero and is just a bit more proud of it than is appropriate. Yeah, it's kind of a cool plane, but....

Very good post

 

[nimtz]

Again, the regional guys didn't vote to take the flying, the legacy guys VOTED to give it away.

BFD. Hanging your hat on this tired old excuse is about as relevant as the geniuses at MSNBC that insists 100% of our economic woes are the fault of Bush. As long as your happy with that lame @ss excuse for the paltry override the 70's get over the 50's...

 

[Dewey Oxberger]

Again, the regional guys didn't vote to take the flying, the legacy guys VOTED to give it away.

OK jackhole, as F'd up as the CAL pilot group has been over the last 27 years, we sure as he11 didn't give up any 70 seat scope yet!

 

[bluefin]

Now Smisek thinks he has cart blanch!!! Hey does the injuction imposed on Ual pilots apply to CO pilots? why don't CO pilots start slowing down, If management throws a fit, throw the 50 seater issue back to them its a two way street!!

 

[bluefin]

OK jackhole, as F'd up as the CAL pilot group has been over the last 27 years, we sure as he11 didn't give up any 70 seat scope yet!

Didn't vote dic% away, it was taken with a gun to our heads, bankruptcy, the pilot contract was one hearing away from being totally thrown out, "either u give us 70 seaters or we will take it away and then some!!!" Most pilots on this board were not even in the industry when that ******************** happened!! Wasn't CO a leader in the pack petitioning the ATSB, not to give UAL the loan in 03?" Some people seem to forget that!!!

 

[Flopgut]

Didn't vote dic% away, it was taken with a gun to our heads, bankruptcy, the pilot contract was one hearing away from being totally thrown out, "either u give us 70 seaters or we will take it away and then some!!!" Most pilots on this board were not even in the industry when that ******************** happened!! Wasn't CO a leader in the pack petitioning the ATSB, not to give UAL the loan in 03?" Some people seem to forget that!!!

Bethune made quite a few remarks in that time frame that were not flattering of UAL. I promise you he doesn't regret them even a little bit. He (and many of us) remembers the "screw CAL" days. Some people forget that as well.

However, I think we all agree, that should be water under the bridge. I'm ready to fiercly defend the UAL brand and all of my coworkers. The upswing this company perhaps might take is shockingly huge. Perhaps even outstrips our ability to negotiate what would be our fair share. I think it's time to start making a case to Congress to look at our situation compared to what this company might be able to earn. With special consideration of the two loan turn downs from the ATSB, that accounted for loss of the pension and scope. Should UAL be able to make this much money in the same decade the pensions and scope were taken from emplyees?

 

[list2002]

Yeah, time to start acting, tired of "documenting" company abuses to show an arbitrator down the line. Contract was due, pilots furloughed, now this, and NOTHING done by the pilots... what will it take?

 

[mamba20]

Yeah, time to start acting, tired of "documenting" company abuses to show an arbitrator down the line. Contract was due, pilots furloughed, now this, and NOTHING done by the pilots... what will it take?

Because our "elected" union officals in the MEC won't let us do anything. They are all bark and no bite. Have been for years.

 

[bluefin]

Bethune made quite a few remarks in that time frame that were not flattering of UAL. I promise you he doesn't regret them even a little bit. He (and many of us) remembers the "screw CAL" days. Some people forget that as well.

However, I think we all agree, that should be water under the bridge. I'm ready to fiercly defend the UAL brand and all of my coworkers. The upswing this company perhaps might take is shockingly huge. Perhaps even outstrips our ability to negotiate what would be our fair share. I think it's time to start making a case to Congress to look at our situation compared to what this company might be able to earn. With special consideration of the two loan turn downs from the ATSB, that accounted for loss of the pension and scope. Should UAL be able to make this much money in the same decade the pensions and scope were taken from emplyees?

I agree. If only I can get my job back!!! F#$% RJ's, they were not around when I worked at a regional. You wanted jet time, you went to a major!!

 

[JoeMerchant]

Well if RAH was ALPA couldn't the pilots be persuaded to not fly these flights?

I'm ALPA, and you couldn't persuade me not to fly those flights....The mainline MECs and ALPA made this bed...time for them to lie down in it. Don't ask me to give up for you.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

so once again the main line pilots are blaming the "rj" pilots while doing nothing to save themselves.

exactly!

 

[JoeMerchant]

Might want to tell that to MGT. and the senior Regional guys. They have planes of making it a long term low paying job.

Us "senior regional guys" have made a career here because the elitest mainline pilots didn't want to fly "little airplanes" and the jobs went away at the "mainline"...Sorry, but I didn't do it, but I'm going do what is best for me now.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

Again, the regional guys didn't vote to take the flying, the legacy guys VOTED to give it away.

Exactly....I have my schedule and 100K a year for flying the mainline gave away...Sorry, but it is mine now....

 

[JoeMerchant]

they maybe lifers now but i seriously doubt they started that way. All i am saying is quit blaming others for your mistakes.

bingo!

 

[JoeMerchant]

you guys need to take this attitude and shove it up your a$$. scope was not voted away, it was taken/stolen in ch11.

In the late 80s and early 90s? Nice try at revisionist history....

 

[JoeMerchant]

The regional and mainline pilots both need to get some balls and step up. You need to get together to stop this whole thing. Most of you mainline guys came from regionals so don't act as if you are all above the regional guys. As far as the regional guys who cares how the scope was lost but it's time to figure out how to get it back !! Flying 70 seat planes for that pay is nothing to brag about.

Work together and become one against management !!!! If we can figure this out we can win. Screw that railway act it's time to stand up and tell them how we all feel. If that means we all fly safe write everything up and nothing will ever be on time to last straw walk off the job. It sure works for the European pilots. They tell them what they are going to do and then do IT !!!

When the mainline pilots come to me and treat me as an equal and a partner, I will work with them.....If they treat me as the enemy and a lower class, then they can get out of my seat....Their choice....

 

[JoeMerchant]

you guys need to take this attitude and shove it up your a$$. scope was not voted away, it was taken/stolen in ch11.

What?????? Nice piece of revisionary history. Was your company in CH11 when ALPA allowed Cessna 402's and other piston twins to be flown by contract carriers? How about Beech 99's? Dash 7 and 8's, Convair’s and Fokker’s? Then small RJ's. Remember Britt, Rocky Mountain, Bar Harbor?

BINGO again!

 

[AWACoff]

Exactly....I have my schedule and 100K a year for flying the mainline gave away...Sorry, but it is mine now....

Are you proud of the fact that you make $100k/year?

 

[jbDC9]

Exactly....I have my schedule and 100K a year for flying the mainline gave away...Sorry, but it is mine now....

Yours? Really?? What does the paint job and titles look like on your ASA airplanes anyway? Does it say Atlantic Southeast Airlines in big titles down the fuselage? Do you have your own stand-alone res system and marketing department and all the other stuff that goes along with a "real" airline?

Umm, nope. It says Delta Connection (or United Express) on the side and has a mainline paint job. ASA is a contract lift provider and the flying belongs to mainline, i.e., it ain't "yours".

 

[Dan Roman]

Exactly....I have my schedule and 100K a year for flying the mainline gave away...Sorry, but it is mine now....

I think the correct term should be mine FOR now. You have every right to do the flying that Delta contracted to ASA, and of course Delta has every right to take it back when conditions warrant. I.E change in pilot contract, market improving for larger aircraft etc.

 

[chqflyer]

When the mainline pilots come to me and treat me as an equal and a partner, I will work with them.....If they treat me as the enemy and a lower class, then they can get out of my seat....Their choice....

How the hell do you pass random drug tests? You are not equal to a mainline pilot. Fogging a mirror and keeping a seat warm does not put oneself on the same level as a mainline pilot. They put in their time either flying for some crappy regional for YEARS or were getting shot at in the military just to qualify to fly for a Major. It is insulting to compare those qualifications with someone who bought 300 hours at some Florida flight school.

 

[sleeves]

Us "senior regional guys" have made a career here because the elitest mainline pilots didn't want to fly "little airplanes" and the jobs went away at the "mainline"...Sorry, but I didn't do it, but I'm going do what is best for me now.....

It might be nice for you at the top of the list but the regional job is not what is best for Most of us pilots. Your F/o's are making nothing and you are trying to prolong there misery. If the Regionals expand that means more capt. slots but also more very low paying f/o slots. Someone is going to get stuck in those positions for a very long time. You will get to sit next to them. But hey it worked out for YOU.

 

[Twisted Mind]

Fogging a mirror and keeping a seat warm does not put oneself on the same level as a mainline pilot. They put in their time either flying for some crappy regional for YEARS or were getting shot at in the military just to qualify to fly for a Major. It is insulting to compare those qualifications with someone who bought 300 hours at some Florida flight school.

Whoa!!!! Let us not forget that mainline carriers at one time hired off the steet with a private pilot and paid for the rest of the pilots training. Then stuck the pilot with a lot less time than 300 hrs in a Convair or equivalent. AGAIN more revisionist history. Must have been nice to be a 18

 

[Twisted Mind]

Must have been nice to be a 18 year old new hire at United and them ungrade to 727 capt at 30. Must be the high level of skill and every thing else that came with being born at the right time.

 

[jonjuan]

Must have been nice to be a 18 year old new hire at United and them ungrade to 727 capt at 30. Must be the high level of skill and every thing else that came with being born at the right time.

Huh? Please explain........

 

[Jetjockey]

Don't blame the pilots who fly for the Regionals. Take the anger and resentment directly to your reps and let them know scope is paramount on the JCBA!