JB pilots file with NMB

[Dizel8]

You have to question the Guys/Gals at the top of the list who would like to fly higher monthly bid divisors at the expense of people being unemployed, you should understand that right?

You need to take that issue up with him or her. I am top 5% and I know of no one, who would advocate such a thing.

 

[elag777]

Let's start with Profit Sharing.

1) What "protection" does the PEA provide for the continued granting of the so called "guaranteed 5% profit sharing"?

It's contained in a legal document in the amendment agreement. Can it be changed? Sure, at the end of your PEA period. If you didn't accept the changes you are eligible for only 3%.
With the increased cost that may be incurred here are we even guaranteed to make a profit at the end of the day?

 

[elag777]

You need to take that issue up with him or her, not the entire group.

I am top 5% and I know of no one, who would advocate such a thing.

you have your eyes closed....

 

[Dizel8]

With the increased cost that may be incurred here are we even guaranteed to make a profit at the end of the day?

You are right, we are greedy bastards, we should just take a paycut. Oh wait, I do every year, since longevity step by design is less than inflation and if that wasn't enough, our medical cost have skyrocketed over the years.

Tell me what kind of payraise the V-day massacre was worth, 40M divided by 1800 pilots, perhaps you can tell me about the parts inventory program, the lack of fuel hedging.

When I go to work, I do my very best to make this company money, I think I should be paid accordingly and taking a paycut year after year, no, I think the time has come to change that.

I like the company, like working here, but the PCRB action plan was the last straw. The PCRB clearly showed where we were deficient, yet the company brushed the major issues aside and gave raises to a few. They had their chance, eight years later, I think it is time for some changes, not just empty promises and "great feedback/takeaways".

 

[Dizel8]

you have your eyes closed....

Sure I do!

 

[elag777]

Sure I do!

Only the last five feet!

 

[StarChecker]

It's contained in a legal document in the amendment agreement. Can it be changed? Sure, at the end of your PEA period. If you didn't accept the changes you are eligible for only 3%.
With the increased cost that may be incurred here are we even guaranteed to make a profit at the end of the day?

How about that Flight Scheduling Manual?

Can it be changed? Sure....OVERNIGHT via email.

Still feel protected?

 

[elag777]

How about that Flight Scheduling Manual?

Can it be changed? Sure....OVERNIGHT via email.

Still feel protected?

Thought I mentioned that work rule changes or amendments in the future were going through one of the established groups? The company has agreed that the "overnight" changes were a problem. Can things change overnight? sure...mass layoffs at Citigroup, unemployment rates 10% by the new year...you getting beamed up...probably not!

 

[Dizel8]

It's okay Elag, I vote yes, you don't vote, so we will cancel each other out. If you are lucky ,the union drive will be unsuccessful, the company will see the lack of resistance and will give scant thought to any improvements.

Oh well, maybe one of the many committees will be tasked to look into a dedicated crewline, have some awesome takeways and we will all be happy again.

If the PCRB and the subsequent action plan didn't convince you, nothing will!

 

[Splert]

It's contained in a legal document in the amendment agreement. Can it be changed? Sure, at the end of your PEA period. If you didn't accept the changes you are eligible for only 3%.
With the increased cost that may be incurred here are we even guaranteed to make a profit at the end of the day?

Not even close...

Want to try again?

 

[johnboy99]

If (and I hope we do) vote the JPBA in I have decided to submit this "blue name" for the next A 320 we get post contract.


"JOHN ROSS BLUE IT"

What do ya'll think??

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Bingo! someone gets it! I'd rather take my 2% and turn it into a $150k IRA by the end of my career. It has and always been the old (senior guys) eating the young.....(junior guys) don't dignify the "fight" to be anything else but me me me and I I I... first on the "blank" piece of paper will be furlough and displacement language...can't wait!uke:

Then cancel all of your personal/private insurance permiums and us the cash for IRA's!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Jet Blue pilots do need representation of some type due mostly to a lack of trust that has developed because of some boneheaded mgt. appointments and policies. However, the thing that I am focusing on is the concept that unions are somehow "all American" and that being in a union makes you a better American blah blah blah. Hell, you might as well say its patriotic to be in a union like Joe Biden thinks you are a patriot by paying more than your fair shair of taxes! If you cut down on that nonsence, we can probably talk about what a union would do for JB. Your "Exactly... meaning more power to the people... or in this case.. to the pilots...." is not factually true. Now pilots need to belong to another large political body, a union, which has all the ills that the original US constitution tried to iron out. This is not "power to the individual", (rember your individual freedoms?) but instead casting your lot with a large, many times corrupt, group. Unions have their place. I still have an ALPA card. But they are not "Mom and apple pie" America.

The structure of unions are democratic. The USA is democratic. They are the same and it can be that simple....

Look- what if over 2/3rds of pilots voted in each election. What if over 2/3 pilots attended elections.

Just as our congressmen and POTUS know exactly what they can and cannot get away with due to citizen outcry or a lack thereof, (e.g. first draft of bailout bill) so do union reps...

There are jB pilots way before there will be JBPA union offers. So this is no chicken or the egg debate. The power comes from the pilots.




So what is the difference between jb pilots forming a union and a neighborhood forming a watch group to address town council/mayor to effect political change? Both is democracy in action.

The ability to do this is not too old... What 200-300 years? And it still cannot be done today in many countries. Sure flying for Emirates sounds sexy, but unions are illegal in the UAE.

Why is pilots forming a union to effect political change not of our democratic heritage?

Simply put, it is Americans standing up for their rights and exercising self governance. And that is how our country was founded....

 

[Caveman]

Okay. To all the fence sitters, no voters and abstainers: Let's for a moment assume that all your points are valid. The company will always do the right thing and the furlough protection and the M&A language in our personal contracts are all rock solid. Even if this is all true we still have serious issues affecting the pilot group that cannot be legally addressed without a CBA.

1. There are GAPING holes in our LOL insurance and workmans comp. I use the term 'workmans comp' on purpose because that's exactly what it is. If you get hurt on the job you will get the exact same amount of money as a gate agent will get. I forget the exact amount, but if you are JFK based it's $400 and change per week. That's it.

2. Our 401K plan is in DIRE need of a correction because of ERISA. The plan is out of balance and the company has to fix it or face heavy tax consequences. So far they've chosen to throw extra money at the low end to bring it into balance. At some point that will become cost prohibitive. Then they will in all likelihood recoup a portion of your contributions and subject them to taxes and/or penalties.

That's just two issues. There are other concerns about LOL and WC in regards to maintaining your medical insurance. At some point in one of them you resort to COBRA out of pocket. None of this can be fixed without a CBA. It's illegal to treat us differently from every other employee. A union of some sort is the only way I know of to legally separate us from the rest of the herd.

Forget work rules, rigs, pay scales, M&A, furloughs, etc, etc. I agree those are all important, but any of those could be addressed sans a CBA. The ERISA problem and our LOL cannot. That alone is worth voting yes IMO.

 

[starvingredtail]

The structure of unions are democratic. The USA is democratic. They are the same and it can be that simple....

Look- what if over 2/3rds of pilots voted in each election. What if over 2/3 pilots attended elections.

Just as our congressmen and POTUS know exactly what they can and cannot get away with due to citizen outcry or a lack thereof, (e.g. first draft of bailout bill) so do union reps...

There are jB pilots way before there will be JBPA union offers. So this is no chicken or the egg debate. The power comes from the pilots.




So what is the difference between jb pilots forming a union and a neighborhood forming a watch group to address town council/mayor to effect political change? Both is democracy in action.

The ability to do this is not too old... What 200-300 years? And it still cannot be done today in many countries. Sure flying for Emirates sounds sexy, but unions are illegal in the UAE.

Why is pilots forming a union to effect political change not of our democratic heritage?

Simply put, it is Americans standing up for their rights and exercising self governance. And that is how our country was founded....

Unions are like a governing body without the controls or rules of a government. They can be explained as similar, but you know as well as I do, they act in their own self interest. In my mind, unions are necessary because they are the best system we have for the protection of pilots against indescriminate actions of management. You are very pumped up on union cheerleading pills. That is fine. But to claim that unions somehow have the same status as say, our founding fathers, is off the edge. I hope we get the union at JB. Please tone down your stretching of history. It sounds very orwellian.

 

[Splert]

Okay. To all the fence sitters, no voters and abstainers: Let's for a moment assume that all your points are valid. The company will always do the right thing and the furlough protection and the M&A language in our personal contracts are all rock solid. Even if this is all true we still have serious issues affecting the pilot group that cannot be legally addressed without a CBA.

1. There are GAPING holes in our LOL insurance and workmans comp. I use the term 'workmans comp' on purpose because that's exactly what it is. If you get hurt on the job you will get the exact same amount of money as a gate agent will get. I forget the exact amount, but if you are JFK based it's $400 and change per week. That's it.

2. Our 401K plan is in DIRE need of a correction because of ERISA. The plan is out of balance and the company has to fix it or face heavy tax consequences. So far they've chosen to throw extra money at the low end to bring it into balance. At some point that will become cost prohibitive. Then they will in all likelihood recoup a portion of your contributions and subject them to taxes and/or penalties.

That's just two issues. There are other concerns about LOL and WC in regards to maintaining your medical insurance. At some point in one of them you resort to COBRA out of pocket. None of this can be fixed without a CBA. It's illegal to treat us differently from every other employee. A union of some sort is the only way I know of to legally separate us from the rest of the herd.

Forget work rules, rigs, pay scales, M&A, furloughs, etc, etc. I agree those are all important, but any of those could be addressed sans a CBA. The ERISA problem and our LOL cannot. That alone is worth voting yes IMO.

ERISA is the reason that elag777 is wrong about what our PEA guarantees. He needs to re read our PEA. Not one thing he stated is in our PEA. In fact the health and welfare benefit language of our PEA is a charade. It is very cleverly written. The plan details of each health and welfare plan are contained within the specific SPD and those are amendable at anytime and as the PCRB reported are outside the scope of the PEA.

In short the 5% PS is not guaranteed and the company can change the plan (every plan) at anytime and would not have to issue an amended PEA for us to accept or decline.

As far as health and welfare benefits our PEA guarantees us nothing. It is a sham and those that promote it are lying to the pilot group.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Just in answer to the allegation that Unions prevent Companies from being responsive to changing market conditions...

LOAs can be written and approved by MECs on VERY short notice, even as little as a day.

So that argument doesn't hold water. The JBPA, by its very existence through its contract will stabilize the work rules and, by extension the lifestyles of ALL B6 pilots.

Again, I wish you guys nothing but well in your quest.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I don't see your reply as convincing...

Unions are like a governing body without the controls or rules of a government.

unions have their own constitution, by laws and admin manual.

The US Gov't has a Constitution and CFR...

More similar than not.....

They can be explained as similar, but you know as well as I do, they act in their own self interest.

How do congressmen (politicians) and union officers (politicians) not act in their own interests? Do you expect a Delta Officer to act in a ASA pilots interest? (RJDC, for example....)

In my mind, unions are necessary because they are the best system we have for the protection of pilots against indescriminate actions of management.

Just as our founding father wanted protection from the King.

Just as currently we have term limits on POTUS. Hence no more Bush and Obama gets a shot.

All democracy.. of the people for the people by the people...

Corny stuff I agree... but true...

You are very pumped up on union cheerleading pills. That is fine.

No, I just value democracy a little more than the avg. American me thinks.... or rather I just practice it more.... call it a hobby...

But to claim that unions somehow have the same status as say, our founding fathers, is off the edge.

No my point is, the FF provided the example of democracy for our gov't and over the years we have expanded it to other parts of our lives that has meaning and value, like HOAs and unions..

It is that premise that I recognize.... That in order to protect democracy on the gov't level, we should, as Americans practice it in other areas... It is an opportunity not afforded many people throughout the ages... more corny stuff I know, but why not?

I hope we get the union at JB. Please tone down your stretching of history. It sounds very orwellian.

What is Orwellian about self rule, defending individual rights, self determination, and self preservation?



Thanks in advance for your reply....

 

[elag777]

Then cancel all of your personal/private insurance permiums and us the cash for IRA's!

You don't even work @ B6 so your points mean absolutly nothing....run along...

 

[elag777]

ERISA is the reason that elag777 is wrong about what our PEA guarantees. He needs to re read our PEA. Not one thing he stated is in our PEA. In fact the health and welfare benefit language of our PEA is a charade. It is very cleverly written. The plan details of each health and welfare plan are contained within the specific SPD and those are amendable at anytime and as the PCRB reported are outside the scope of the PEA.

In short the 5% PS is not guaranteed and the company can change the plan (every plan) at anytime and would not have to issue an amended PEA for us to accept or decline.

As far as health and welfare benefits our PEA guarantees us nothing. It is a sham and those that promote it are lying to the pilot group.

Obviously you can' read....go back to school....