JB pilots file with NMB

[PCL_128]

I am keeping my 2.5% is a statement from old...how I am not a member of ALPA anymore.

ALPA dues are only 1.95%.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

To put a fine point on it, you said that JB management was "taking away the professional status" by
-cleaning cabins
-the fatigue experiment
-no code of ethics.

I showed you that they
-leave it open...and I like it open for interpretation. Your milage may vary.

That fact that it exist is the point.... we can go over the points or just search this forum....
At one point, I believe, it was written into the job description on the JB website...

This is a concern because JB management views pilots as just another employee group.. there is nothing unique about pilots. While this is correct when it comes to basic respect amongst all, when it comes to compensation for education, training and responsibility, it means something else...

-had a cooperative part in the fatigue experiment, a PERFECT example of how to work with a group instead of against it

To defend that exp. is embarrassing. That is not how to conduct a safety evaluation. What was the goal of the experiment? To see if management can change the flight and duty times? To whose favor? Obviously no one was looking out for safety or the pilots interest...

-I disagree...show me where any other company has "ethics" that are in place...

Company? The profession creates the ethics. I am not sure of any air line company that cares about the Profession of Air Line Pilots...

You make a post--now back it up. Don't just add explanatory text about how we need capital hill representation.

JetBlue MAY need a union. But not for the shallow reasons you so callously throw out.

Shallow reasons? Counter this:

1. Cleaning cabins. This is a major blow to the image of JB pilots and respect from their peers. You'll be hard pressed to find pilots from AMR, NWA, SWA, DAL and UAL who think pilots cleaning cabins is a good idea. Embarrassing.


2. Fatigue experiments conducted on unknown traveling public. Were FARs broken? Would the traveling public have agreed to to fly on those flights had they known? Embarrassing.

3. Code Of Ethics. The FAA has defined a profession as one with a code. It is quite simple, paramount and elementary. Don't fret.. if you read an airline pilots CoE it is quite a company and passenger committed document. Once read, professional pilots agree with it...

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Again, show me how the program was a management failure and I'll agree with Res' proposition.

What's the status of AMP? There's your answer.

AMP was like Age 65 and the FFDO program. JB voiced "our" opinions to the media on those as well, yet I cannot remember anyone asking me if I wanted to work until age 65 or if I was against the FFDO program. The media release on Age 65 read something like:

DB: "On behalf of all JetBlue pilots we are pleased that pilots can now work until Age 65."

Give me a break. Right now management speaks for us. Hopefully, not for long.

 

[PsubS]

AMP as cancelled by Bushy when he saw the downside...he slowed the entire process down when he came to the company; our Yoda and the director of flight standards were pushing to petition the FAA for a waiver/exemption before the study was even complete. Bushy stopped the whole process--that is management assessing the risk and taking appropriate action.

Again, the cabin cleaning thing is completely horse-beaten. It's your opinion. Ain't proof, sugar bear.

Hmmmm. A three man crew extending a duty day. Sounds rather like many a cargo operation out there, or even an augmented crew.

But you probably didn't know that they flew it augmented, did you?

Ahhhh...and what exactly does the FAA's COE have to do with...anything?

 

[coogebeachhotel]

AMP as cancelled by Bushy when he saw the downside...he slowed the entire process down when he came to the company; our Yoda and the director of flight standards were pushing to petition the FAA for a waiver/exemption before the study was even complete. Bushy stopped the whole process--that is management assessing the risk and taking appropriate action.

Again, the cabin cleaning thing is completely horse-beaten. It's your opinion. Ain't proof, sugar bear.

Hmmmm. A three man crew extending a duty day. Sounds rather like many a cargo operation out there, or even an augmented crew.

But you probably didn't know that they flew it augmented, did you?

Ahhhh...and what exactly does the FAA's COE have to do with...anything?

Yep knew it was augmented.

 

[waveflyer]

i never minded the fatigue experiment. i'm way more tired by the length of duty day and total days at work than i am by the amount that i fly in one day. but it is disconcerting that no union is involved in the decision process- considering it's line pilots who would have to live with it.

 

[PsubS]

Coogebeachhotel wrote:

All the pro AMP pilots went into the game knowing what they had to do to make the experiment work. If you know what I mean. Hardly an unbiased experiment

Yep knew it was augmented.

So, you still have not shown me how it was unbiased...do you have evidence?

Would you like to read the actual study? http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/asma/asem/2006/00000077/00000012/art00007

And for your suggestion to do a redeye turn...that would be folly. And it was never suggested.

but it is disconcerting that no union is involved in the decision process- considering it's line pilots who would have to live with it.

Waveflyer, with all respect, could you forsee a cooperative effort between management and the pilot group to establish strict rules governing these types of flights?

In other words, (and to summarize the thread) does a union have to exist to negotiate an appropriate level of pay, work rules, etc? Or (gasp) could it be done differently?

 

[coogebeachhotel]

Coogebeachhotel wrote:


So, you still have not shown me how it was unbiased...do you have evidence?

Would you like to read the actual study? http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/asma/asem/2006/00000077/00000012/art00007

And for your suggestion to do a redeye turn...that would be folly. And it was never suggested.



Waveflyer, with all respect, could you forsee a cooperative effort between management and the pilot group to establish strict rules governing these types of flights?

In other words, (and to summarize the thread) does a union have to exist to negotiate an appropriate level of pay, work rules, etc? Or (gasp) could it be done differently?

A union is absolutely needed in this industry. You must still be in your military bubble. Thats fine just wait.

Having sat next to the guru behind the experiment I got the full scoop. Enough said.

 

[PCL_128]

In other words, (and to summarize the thread) does a union have to exist to negotiate an appropriate level of pay, work rules, etc?

Yes, it does.

 

[Caveman]

Some of you are still missing the point.

There are serious deficiencies in regards to our 401K and LOL/STD/LTD that can not be fixed unless we have a CBA. It is illegal to create separate plans for any specific group of individuals unless they are separately organized. A350 or Blue Bayou, how do you propose we address those issues without a CBA?