It's official, no deal now

[jke406]

ding ding ding!!

we have a winner!

 

[Schwanker]

"With that said, I'm a newhire at DAL and I will hit 50% on the list in 2023 with age 65 and NO additional pilots hired after today.

With only about 1000 retirements between now and 2020 in a 7000 pilot seniority list, that would put a new hire at number 6000. So you only need to hire another 6000 pilots for a 12,000 pilot seniority list to get to the 50% mark. Maybe that growth the General predicts will come true. Good Luck!

Schwanker

 

[PuffDriver]

You're right. DAL is better. NWA should have just folded. Heck, maybe if we beg DAL will allow NWA to be stapled to the bottom of their list!!! It's so nice of the DAL MEC to be so balanced and right down the middle with their career expectations of both seniority lists! DAL rules!!!

Schwanker

I guess that you have nothing worth anything to add. Nobody said Delta is better than NWA. What I did say is that the future does not bode well as it looks today. All of your great scenarios are based on NWA being BK free by 2011 AND in a position to give you 33% above your contract. The Delta MEC is quite aware of the real life shaping up in the now. I am not saying that NWA is going to fold, I am saying that your career progression going it alone is not going to come to fruition. You assume only retirements, when in real life they will likely be offset by the parking of a fleet. It has already been thrown out there by people in the know. You say Delta presented a list from which there was no bargaining. In a way, you are correct. They presented a list that showed how much better any given NWA pilot will be with the merger and the list as is AS WELL AS any given Delta pilot. No one gains more, no one gains less. that is the core issue with ALPA merger policy. Try and stick to the issues as opposed to emotional rhetoric. There is way too much at stake. Of course, it may be too late already, in which case all of this is just mud-slinging and fire away.

 

[ironspud]

It's likely crap, but on another message board it was "reported" that the NWA proposal had 30 DL pilots in the top 2000 numbers and DL would own all of the bottom 2000 numbers (of the combined list). Can this honestly be true? Very APA-esq if true.

 

[nwaredtail]

It's likely crap, but on another message board it was "reported" that the NWA proposal had 30 DL pilots in the top 2000 numbers and DL would own all of the bottom 2000 numbers (of the combined list). Can this honestly be true? Very APA-esq if true.

These guys know absolutely D*CK about any proposals that were passed. Ignore them and please realize not all NWA and DAL pilots are as arrogant and full of crap as these people.

I find it laughable that the General and Puff think that NWA pilots would pass up a "good" deal. They said "no thank you" because the deal that Rocket Scientist Lee Moak came up with would absolutely screw all but about 400 of our pilots. His arrogance and lack of foresight will put DAL in a position of no dance partner very soon, while NWA weighs it's options.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Well it was not agreed to, so it is a moot point.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

These guys know absolutely D*CK about any proposals that were passed. Ignore them and please realize not all NWA and DAL pilots are as arrogant and full of crap as these people.

I find it laughable that the General and Puff think that NWA pilots would pass up a "good" deal. They said "no thank you" because the deal that Rocket Scientist Lee Moak came up with would absolutely screw all but about 400 of our pilots. His arrogance and lack of foresight will put DAL in a position of no dance partner very soon, while NWA weighs it's options.

Read ALPA's merger and fragmentation policy. A ratio is how there are not gains for either one. I think that as time passes we will all realize what a god proposal it was.

 

[nwaredtail]

Read ALPA's merger and fragmentation policy. A ratio is how there are not gains for either one. I think that as time passes we will all realize what a god proposal it was.

Sure, You all got to move up a good 20% or so recently and then get to move up more as NWA pilots retire over the next 10 years. Sounds fair to me.

Answer this, WITH NO GROWTH, how much will a DAL pilot move on the DAL list over the next 10 years. About 400 or 8%

With No growth at NWA, A NWA pilot will move up around 950, or 22% ish. HUGE DIFFERENCE and DALALPA knows it.

 

[General Lee]

Sure, You all got to move up a good 20% or so recently and then get to move up more as NWA pilots retire over the next 10 years. Sounds fair to me.

Answer this, WITH NO GROWTH, how much will a DAL pilot move on the DAL list over the next 10 years. About 400 or 8%

With No growth at NWA, A NWA pilot will move up around 950, or 22% ish. HUGE DIFFERENCE and DALALPA knows it.

But wait, there is growth at DAL, and also AMR is looking at you. How about dem apples? The only thing that is constant is CHANGE. Things Change. You cannot control the future. If oil continues it's rise and Steenland decided to park even more DC9s for some reason, then your expectations change AGAIN. Your career expectations argument does NOT work.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

With only about 1000 retirements between now and 2020 in a 7000 pilot seniority list, that would put a new hire at number 6000. So you only need to hire another 6000 pilots for a 12,000 pilot seniority list to get to the 50% mark. Maybe that growth the General predicts will come true. Good Luck!

Schwanker

How would you do merging with AMR? How many pilots do they have? How would you do? They would love to staple you and then you can sue them. They don't care what the laws are. They will do it and force you to make a move. Enjoy that. Remember, your MEC came back to ours for a reason----the reason being AMR is looking at you now. Steenland doesn't care either way, he will get his $14 million and his large new house on Lake Minnetonka regardless of who he merges with. Enjoy NYC on the MD80, for years and years.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[PuffDriver]

Sure, You all got to move up a good 20% or so recently and then get to move up more as NWA pilots retire over the next 10 years. Sounds fair to me.

Answer this, WITH NO GROWTH, how much will a DAL pilot move on the DAL list over the next 10 years. About 400 or 8%

With No growth at NWA, A NWA pilot will move up around 950, or 22% ish. HUGE DIFFERENCE and DALALPA knows it.

You assume that NWA will stay status quo. You assume that the bottom will not rise up to meet them, which all signs point to BTW. ACL65 is right. The point is moot, for now.

 

[Klamath]

Age 65 passed in December. NWA retirements for Jan were 19; for Feb, 20, let's see what happens in Mar. The NWA guys are leaving with their pensions. Your relative seniority "Today" picture is not ours' 5 years from now.

Quit begging us to merge. You keep stating how much we will gain, while you suffer, but you're the ones trying to convince us to join forces.

Keep Delta your Delta as one other poster says.

I've always felt a little sorry for the homely girl who thinks she's hot.

 

[Schwanker]

How would you do merging with AMR?
The SLI would likely be better than the DAL table position. I don't like the financials of the combined company. AMR has it's work cut out for them over the next few years.
How many pilots do they have? How would you do? They would love to staple you and then you can sue them. They don't care what the laws are. They will do it and force you to make a move. Enjoy that. Remember, your MEC came back to ours for a reason----the reason being AMR is looking at you now. Steenland doesn't care either way, he will get his $14 million and his large new house on Lake Minnetonka regardless of who he merges with. Enjoy NYC on the MD80, for years and years.


Bye Bye--General Lee

I do find it kind of funny that you're resorting to scare tactics. NWA does have a poison pill and locks up CAL with the Golden Share. Personally, I like my odds best with the NWA stand alone plan. A DAL or CAL merge has potential, but only with a fair SLI. Moaks definition is fair to the DAL guys. Sorry, but it won't work for the NWA crew.

Schwanker

 

[Schwanker]

Age 65 passed in December. NWA retirements for Jan were 19; for Feb, 20, let's see what happens in Mar. The NWA guys are leaving with their pensions. Your relative seniority "Today" picture is not ours' 5 years from now.

I anticipate quite a few NWA guys who are reaching 60 to stick around hoping for a quick equity payout. When the hype passes (hopefully this all dies soon), they'll be gone like the rest!

Schwanker

 

[nwaredtail]

I've always felt a little sorry for the homely girl who thinks she's hot.[/QUOTE]

Too funny, the General is just nervous because Saint Richard is going to cut domestci mainline and Int'l expansion tomorrow, leaving his "growth" argument out into the wind.

Interviewer to the Delta Captain, "what would you be if you couldn't be a pilot for Delta?"

Delta pilot in that lovely southern drawl, "Well, ma'am, I'd be ashamed"

Saw it, no sh*t.