It's official, no deal now

[PuffDriver]

As of this moment, I have received notice that DAL and NWA could not come to terms on a SLI deal. Thus, no merger as of now.

Pretty much what the Delta pilots have been saying is what happened, according to the Delta Chairman. 2 separate meetings between the powers that be led to no significant movement from the NWA side with regard to their position. The last meeting was followed by a call from NWA to Delta in an effort to discuss the NWA proposal further. Our MEC chair declined.

Basically, from this side anyway, we opened up with our final proposal right down the middle of the road. NWA approached this from the traditional sense of negotiation--each side moving a little bit towards the middle.

I am more reaffirmed in my MEC than ever. They approached this from a "unique" perspective. They led the way and paved a non-traditional path of organized labor being PART of the merger process rather than a byproduct of it. In doing so, they--along with the NWA MEC--managed to hammer out a joint contract in record time and solve issues beforehand that usually are solved in terms of years.

Dramatic improvements brought up pay, sick leave, retirement, work rules, and gave a voting pilot seat on the BOD of the new company. Gone.

Our chair was adamant that from every prospective, the pilots of both airlines were served fairly by the Delta MEC proposal--which was not a position of negotiating. We presented our last best and final offer right off the bat in the interest of the uniqueness of the transaction. I applaud them for their foresight and leadership in that regard. I think that it is a shame that this transaction did not happen, and that it is also a shame that NWA pilots will suffer financial loss due to the lack of equal leadership at their airline.

That's right, the numbers were given, and proved, that a NWA pilot would have been better off financially with this transaction than without it over their individual careers. The actual list proposals were not included in the letter.

Discuss

 

[eaglefly]

Sounds like your trying to convince yourself that it would have been in NWA pilots best interests to take whatever the DAL MEC offered.........as if the DAL MEC is the enlightened father of airline pilots.

Sounds to me like NWA pilots are probably better off not merging with DAL as I'd bet the DAL MEC was more concerned with their interests than anyone elses.

Good job to the NWA MEC for not allowing yourselves to be owned by the interests of another MEC. Good chance down the road Delta could whack some junior pilots, so better off BEING Delta pilots in that instance. Should the merger have occured there almost CERTAINLY would've been pilot job losses and it would've been NWA pilots as the furlogh fodder with some pay raises perhaps for those who survived.

Sounds like a lousy deal for NWA pilots, so I think they dodged a major bullet.

 

[PuffDriver]

Sounds like your trying to convince yourself that it would have been in NWA pilots best interests to take whatever the DAL MEC offered.........as if the DAL MEC is the enlightened father of airline pilots.

Sounds to me like NWA pilots are probably better off not merging with DAL as I'd bet the DAL MEC was more concerned with their interests than anyone elses.

Good job to the NWA MEC for not allowing yourselves to be owned by the interests of another MEC. Good chance down the road Delta could whack some junior pilots, so better off BEING Delta pilots in that instance. Should the merger have occured there almost CERTAINLY would've been pilot job losses and it would've been NWA pilots as the furlogh fodder with some pay raises perhaps for those who survived.

Sounds like a lousy deal for NWA pilots, so I think they dodged a major bullet.

Obviously, you didn't read a single word of what I wrote. I am not TRYING to convince myself of anything. I am QUITE convinced you are wrong on every account you have typed. The NWA MEC was blinded by hire dates, when cold hard facts were staring them in the face regarding career earnings with the deal vs without the deal. I could provide come concrete examples with regard to some of the faulty logic associated with the NWA MECs numbers which go even further evidence as to how misserved the NWA have been, but it is water under the bridge now and serves no purpose other than to make you look foolish. Not worth the time.

 

[Redmeat]

Dramatic improvements brought up pay, sick leave, retirement, work rules, and gave a voting pilot seat on the BOD of the new company. Gone.

The REALLY sad thing is that this merger IS going to happen (has to economically) and now we have relegated ourselves to the traditional 'byproduct' of management/labor relations.

It was a test...and we failed miserably.

Turns out we do need the Kindergarten Teacher (management) in the room to stop the food fights.

PATHETIC.

 

[Tref]

That's right, the numbers were given, and proved, that a NWA pilot would have been better off financially with this transaction than without it over their individual careers. The actual list proposals were not included in the letter.

Discuss

So you're basically saying that in spite of being screwed on the SLI that we would've been better off?

Hmmm, $110 oil, huge DAL debt due in a couple of years. Kinda think the only permanent thing in the deal would've been the SLI. Contracts change, or hadn't you noticed?

 

[Tantrum]

I really have no idea what will happen going forward, but if this merger goes through anyway I assume the SLI will end up in binding arbitration. And wouldn't it just be a slap in the face of the NWA pilots if the arbitrator's decision is even worse for the NW pilots than what DAL was proposing. But who knows, could just as easily go the other way as well. Fun times ahead!!

 

[nonstop]

So let me get this straight, DAL ALPA came to the meeting unwilling to negotiate? Why was there even a meeting? They could have just faxed their proposal and said "here, we think we know what's best for everybody you don't know jack... take it or leave it."

It's the NWA pilots fault for not accepting the first and final proposal of DAL pilots? Are you kidding me? Talk about an unrealistic expectation, not negotiating a SLI.

I'm fine right here with advancement based on attrition (that IS still continuing despite age 65). Good luck with that advancement based on growth in this economic environment with massive short term debt due. Maybe we can try a SLI again in a few years when our new hires are Captains and yours are returning from furlough.

 

[eaglefly]

Obviously, you didn't read a single word of what I wrote. I am not TRYING to convince myself of anything. I am QUITE convinced you are wrong on every account you have typed. The NWA MEC was blinded by hire dates, when cold hard facts were staring them in the face regarding career earnings with the deal vs without the deal. I could provide come concrete examples with regard to some of the faulty logic associated with the NWA MECs numbers which go even further evidence as to how misserved the NWA have been, but it is water under the bridge now and serves no purpose other than to make you look foolish. Not worth the time.

[sound of laughter]

Nice try.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Just another shot across the bow. We are done negotiating. Now it is up to others. That is basically what the letter said.
It did not say that the deal would not be done, it just said that it could not be done this way. Lee has informed our management of such.
Now we will see if they agree or are going to play hard ball.
I find it interesting that this letter comes out on the eve of DAL's unveiling of their now '08 flight plan.

 

[PuffDriver]

So let me get this straight, DAL ALPA came to the meeting unwilling to negotiate? Why was there even a meeting? They could have just faxed their proposal and said "here, we think we know what's best for everybody you don't know jack... take it or leave it."

It's the NWA pilots fault for not accepting the first and final proposal of DAL pilots? Are you kidding me? Talk about an unrealistic expectation, not negotiating a SLI.

I'm fine right here with advancement based on attrition (that IS still continuing despite age 65). Good luck with that advancement based on growth in this economic environment with massive short term debt due. Maybe we can try a SLI again in a few years when our new hires are Captains and yours are returning from furlough.

Not surprisingly, you are not thinking clearly. Just about every bit of capital achieved with the joint contract was to bring NWA pilots up to par with the Delta pilots. In addition to that, the NWA SLI was more along the lines with date-of-hire. Our money people tried in vain to show through cold numbers how much better off any given NWA was financially with this deal as opposed to without. Not to mention, as one poster stated, this was a chance to be a part of the process as opposed to having it forced upon us. That time has now passed and for better or worse we will now have to live with the unknown. A prediction: this deal will be back within weeks without the economic package and binding arbitration will result in a list very similar to what the Delta pilots proposal was.

This was NOT a negotiation, that will come next, and you will not like the result of it's failure-to-be. This was an opportunity for realistic working out of a seniority list outside the bounds of ALPA merger policy. The Delta pilots came in with balance in mind. the NWA pilots came in looking for unbalance. Funny thing about your vision of the future. It has no basis as to the reality we are facing on the economic front.

I'll save your post for a big I told you so, though.