It's official, no deal now

[DTW320]

Posted on the NWA board:

Moak's letter said it all, that they didn't come to
negotiate, but to present their proposal. Even their own
numbers show a VAST amount of stagnation for NWA pilots,
because under their ratioed list, it was mostly DAL
pilots that would move into the vacated positions left
by NWA retirees.

Our side would obviously like DOH, and their side
obviously wants a ratioed list. They wouldn't even TALK
about meeting in the middle. It's their way or the
highway...well Mr. Moak, the on ramp is right over
there.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Delta has a massive regional jet problem on its hand. Its liability is ten times that of NWA at least. NWA's regionals are profitable right now even at $110bbl.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Gents,

It might be a good time to relax and take a breath. The proposals aren't as far apart as you think...and the differences could be overcome.

The DAL team moved, and the NWA team moved. Both developed a new method for solving the "stagnation" issue. Within the methodology, there was/is room for BOTH sides to move without selling their souls. One side is ready to move. The other isn't...right now.

Nothing in airline negotiations happens without a deadline, and there is no deadline. (If there is, and it hasn't been made clear to both sides, then management will have gooned this)

The chipping here is stoo-pid. These are two strong airlines that have solid pilot groups.

 

[nwaredtail]

Gents,

It might be a good time to relax and take a breath. The proposals aren't as far apart as you think...and the differences could be overcome.

The DAL team moved, and the NWA team moved. Both developed a new method for solving the "stagnation" issue. Within the methodology, there was/is room for BOTH sides to move without selling their souls. One side is ready to move. The other isn't...right now.

Nothing in airline negotiations happens without a deadline, and there is no deadline. (If there is, and it hasn't been made clear to both sides, then management will have gooned this)

The chipping here is stoo-pid. These are two strong airlines that have solid pilot groups.

I hear the A320 instructors are a bit weak though

 

[eaglefly]

Ok, oh blind one. Keep watching. [Picture of Hussein on his way to the gallows]

......and you keep puffin those weanies on your layovers.

You're better at that, then forcasting the future of the industry.

 

[eaglefly]

You and your EMJs are a major problem in this industry with high oil, and you might want to be looking for a NWA interview very soon. The 742 FE slot would be good for you in ANC. Go for it!

Bye Bye--General Lee

Your excessive salary (for work performed) and poor work ethic aren't helping either.

If Delta parks some birds, you may want to wave your upgrade bye-bye for a decade or so.

The NWA guys were smart for not taking the offer of furlough fodder from your MEC. I guess nervousness will be back in play there, huh ?

 

[MJ42]

Gents,

It might be a good time to relax and take a breath. The proposals aren't as far apart as you think...and the differences could be overcome.

The DAL team moved, and the NWA team moved. Both developed a new method for solving the "stagnation" issue. Within the methodology, there was/is room for BOTH sides to move without selling their souls. One side is ready to move. The other isn't...right now.

Nothing in airline negotiations happens without a deadline, and there is no deadline. (If there is, and it hasn't been made clear to both sides, then management will have gooned this)

The chipping here is stoo-pid. These are two strong airlines that have solid pilot groups.

Thanks for the common sense update.

 

[Truckdriver]

With only about 1000 retirements between now and 2020 in a 7000 pilot seniority list, that would put a new hire at number 6000. So you only need to hire another 6000 pilots for a 12,000 pilot seniority list to get to the 50% mark. Maybe that growth the General predicts will come true. Good Luck!

Schwanker

Again, you have to be the most one sided idiot in this argument. I think most people have a handle on what the other side is looking at except you. My calculator shows 3446 retirements between now and 2023 and about 2300 by 2020. By 2023, guys at the bottom of the Delta list will be about the same relative seniority as guys at the bottom of the NWA list. Stop posting absolute crap and educate yourself before you post. Your making yourself look very stupid at this point.

I think both sides should have given here. I've flown with 88 Captains who said that relative seniority would have bumped them back to the right seat and I know NWA guys who say the relative seniority would put a 99 DAL guy right next to a 95 NWA guy. I'm not sure what the answer should have been to the integration, but I'm almost certain we will all end up worse off when they pull the trigger on the merger without us involved. You think were gonna get a chunk of equity, more retirement money, and pay raises of close to 20% over the next 4 years with a recession and $100bbl oil? Maybe we are as stupid as management thinks we are.

 

[AA717driver]

Congrats to the NWA guys for not letting someone else negotiate for them. TC

 

[FDJ2]

With No growth at NWA, A NWA pilot will move up around 950, or 22% ish. HUGE DIFFERENCE and DALALPA knows it.

Check out your growth plan now.

Reuters


Northwest Airlines (NYSE:NWA - News), which slashed operations in bankruptcy, may shrink the airline even more if fuel prices erode travel demand, the carrier's chief executive said.

In a recorded message to employees on Sunday, Doug Steenland did not specify what steps Northwest might take or how much smaller the airline might get, but he cautioned that higher fuel costs can lead to fewer passengers. "With that in mind, we have to rethink the size of the airline we operate," he said.

 

[Superpilot92]

Again, you have to be the most one sided idiot in this argument. I think most people have a handle on what the other side is looking at except you. My calculator shows 3446 retirements between now and 2023 and about 2300 by 2020. By 2023, guys at the bottom of the Delta list will be about the same relative seniority as guys at the bottom of the NWA list. Stop posting absolute crap and educate yourself before you post. Your making yourself look very stupid at this point.

I think both sides should have given here. I've flown with 88 Captains who said that relative seniority would have bumped them back to the right seat and I know NWA guys who say the relative seniority would put a 99 DAL guy right next to a 95 NWA guy. I'm not sure what the answer should have been to the integration, but I'm almost certain we will all end up worse off when they pull the trigger on the merger without us involved. You think were gonna get a chunk of equity, more retirement money, and pay raises of close to 20% over the next 4 years with a recession and $100bbl oil? Maybe we are as stupid as management thinks we are.

I agree. Bottom line is if MGMT wants it to happen they are going to try.

 

[Tref]

Read ALPA's merger and fragmentation policy. A ratio is how there are not gains for either one. I think that as time passes we will all realize what a god proposal it was.

Ha, typo or Freudian slip?!

 

[tomgoodman]

Negotiating

Nothing in airline negotiations happens without a deadline, and there is no deadline.

That's true, and it frequently takes at least one walk-away from the table and sometimes a new negotiating team. Even if the deal offered is sweet indeed, it must appear to be the reward of a hard-fought victory. That's why I question the wisdom of ever opening with a "best and final offer" (whether or not that happened in this case). Such a strategy ignores human nature.

 

[FDJ2]

That's why I question the wisdom of ever opening with a "best and final offer" (whether or not that happened in this case). Such a strategy ignores human nature.

There was no "best and final offer" opener, but there was an opener that didn't start with a wish list.

The reality is that there was never time for all the monkey motions and posturing of a traditional integration "negotiation".

Regardless, I believe the window of opportunity has come and gone.

That's o.k., we didn't come to an agreement, we each go our separate ways.

 

[General Lee]

Your excessive salary (for work performed) and poor work ethic aren't helping either.

If Delta parks some birds, you may want to wave your upgrade bye-bye for a decade or so.

The NWA guys were smart for not taking the offer of furlough fodder from your MEC. I guess nervousness will be back in play there, huh ?

No parking of mainline planes supposedly, only moving them from DOM to INTL. Primarily the 764s that still do some domestic flying. If I move over there, I get a $20 raise an hour. If I can hold 737NG (we still get 7 this year), then I will get even more. As far as the NWA guys getting "furlough fodder" from our MEC, I bet their own planes (DC9s) would be the first to go, not our MD88s. But, you know better....... And, I am not nervous at all, sometimes seniority does help. You might use your seniority to bid ATR soon. Which base will it be? MIA or SJU?


Bye Bye--General Lee