It's like AT ALPA is trying to burn their undeserved lottery ticket...

[Empennage]

So, you're "Aquisitioning" the Seniority list? No, no you're not. An arbitrator won't allow that. He would decide. And everyone being aquired is usually LET GO you say? Whatever, Gordon Gecko.


Bye Bye---General Lee

You finally ran out.

 

[scoreboardII]

Score...thanks for keeping it civil.

What you are failing to mention in your ownership opinion is this:

When SWA the Company entered into the agreement to bring AAI into the fold ("acquired" as some of your guys like to say), they also accepted/inherited the AirTran CBA in its entirety including all of the scope provisions contained therein. It is those scope protections that protect a pilot group and their years of seniority and longevity. What if the new mega carrier known as Delta/Northwest decided to acquire SWA? Would you not expect your years of service to SWA to be protected just like we at AAI do? Would you not expect a fair and equitable SLI that results in you being viewed as a peer among your new fellow pilots rather than a 2nd class citizen?

So you view fair and equitable as a..."liability"?

To say AAI brought "nothing to the deal" is preposterous. It smacks of elitism.

Some would say that what AAI brings to the table is for the benefit of SWA the Company, not SWAPA the pilot group and therefore SWAPA the pilot group gains nothing, but A-ALPA the pilot group gains substantially. Monetarily...yes. But that is between SWA the Company and A-ALPA. Those gains are for doing the exact same job as a SWAPA pilot. Should an AAI pilot have to give up 32% seniority for doing the same job as a SWAPA pilot?

Has any Harm come to a SWAPA pilot in this AIP? What does a SWAPA pilot gain? How about the critical mass that comes with the overnight addition of 140 aircraft to the combined fleet along with the 50 options, the latter of which equals growth, the former of which ensures that the new combined company has the mass and muscle to hold their own against the new behemoths of the industry: the aforementioned DAL/NW, the new UAL/CAL, and possibly a 3rd titan in the form of AMR/???.

So, yes...let's please keep to the facts when discussing what's really happening, thanks.

Don, I'm not saying AAI didn't bring anything to the table, just that the pilots are only bringing themselves. The CBA of AT is a liability for SWAPA, not a bad thing, yet a liability which must be dealt with in any case.

Has harm come to swapa pilots? Yes. Biggest being a thing we call culture, hard to describe to those on the outside, I'll just leave it to say we don't want to see our culture destroyed by the shenanigans of an outside suitor. We believe in starting at the bottom and working your way up. Not as punishment nor a haze, but as training in the art of our spirit, you learn by doing, not by reading a book, again, something hard for outsiders to understand so the first thing they usually do is throw out terms like "elitist".

You mention aircraft numbers; again, AT pilots bring zero aircraft, those belonged to AT, bought by SWA, from monies earned by SWA pilots. AT pilots bring a liability of industry arbitrations showing seat locks, counter to reasonable seniority awards. This would be "a harm" against those SWA FO's who are senior to an AT pilot who gets to keep his seat, get our pay which we spent negotiating capital on, and gets it for life.

Do you not agree SWA pilots sacrificed a minimum three years of no growth/zero upgrades so cash could be accumulated for the eventual buyout of AAI? That money could have purchased SWA jets, not AT jets.

You mention the hypothetical DAL takeover of SWA, given SWA's track record, it's more likely the other way around. We have cash on hand to buy AA outright, but aren't that stupid.

I'll finish and say I see your point, but my point makes more sense, so we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[On Your Six]

Don, I'm not saying AAI didn't bring anything to the table, just that the pilots are only bringing themselves. The CBA of AT is a liability for SWAPA, not a bad thing, yet a liability which must be dealt with in any case.

Has harm come to swapa pilots? Yes. Biggest being a thing we call culture, hard to describe to those on the outside, I'll just leave it to say we don't want to see our culture destroyed by the shenanigans of an outside suitor. We believe in starting at the bottom and working your way up. Not as punishment nor a haze, but as training in the art of our spirit, you learn by doing, not by reading a book, again, something hard for outsiders to understand so the first thing they usually do is throw out terms like "elitist".

You mention aircraft numbers; again, AT pilots bring zero aircraft, those belonged to AT, bought by SWA, from monies earned by SWA pilots. AT pilots
bring a liability of industry arbitrations showing seat locks, counter to reasonable seniority awards. This would be "a harm" against those SWA FO's who are senior to an AT pilot who gets to keep his seat, get our pay which we spent negotiating capital on, and gets it for life.

Do you not agree SWA pilots sacrificed a minimum three years of no growth/zero upgrades so cash could be accumulated for the eventual buyout of AAI? That money could have purchased SWA jets, not AT jets.

You mention the hypothetical DAL takeover of SWA, given SWA's track record, it's more likely the other way around. We have cash on hand to buy AA outright, but aren't that stupid.

I'll finish and say I see your point, but my point makes more sense, so we'll have to agree to disagree.

How ridiculous! You believe WHAT? Starting from the ground up? Sorry, that doesn't happen in mergers, or acquisitions these days. Please be the first witness on the stand at arbitration, everyone will bust up laughing, and probably laughing and choking on their own hysterical vomit. You don't get out much, do you Forest Gump? With 5 legs a day, maybe you don't? You need to start realizing that you are just one of many, and not the one and ONLY.


OYS

 

[scoreboardII]

This message is hidden because On Your Six is on your ignore list.

If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you.

 

[Quimby]

I know. I really had no interest until the FI.com SWA F/Os decided to parade their arrogance in public.

Couple that with the SWA F/Os who run the "geezermeter" thread and the irony is incredible. They're hot because some of their guys decided to stay in the left seat for 5 years while at the same time espousing stapling 650 of their coworkers and relegating them to a decade stuck in the right seat.

What a bunch of great guys!



Of course they do. You know how you can tell? By the howls of outrage and name calling they resort to when you expose their feet of clay.



See what I mean?



In fact, pay has come into play only once. Yet, this is the position the SWAPA is hanging their hat. The overwhelming result of recent arbitrations has been some form of ratio.

Personally, in this case, DoH might be the way to go.

Yawn.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Just like when the earth stopped it's rotation and there was a moment of silence in Atlanta when the beloved Delta filed for bankruptcy? At the least the double breasted arrogance stopped...for one day.

But never fear.....the Flag tie wearing, leather jacket DEEbaggery never slowed its roll!!!

 

[redflyer65]

Your right Billy, we just kept making money.

 

[tzskipper]

Don, I'm not saying AAI didn't bring anything to the table, just that the pilots are only bringing themselves. The CBA of AT is a liability for SWAPA, not a bad thing, yet a liability which must be dealt with in any case.

Has harm come to swapa pilots? Yes. Biggest being a thing we call culture, hard to describe to those on the outside, I'll just leave it to say we don't want to see our culture destroyed by the shenanigans of an outside suitor. We believe in starting at the bottom and working your way up. Not as punishment nor a haze, but as training in the art of our spirit, you learn by doing, not by reading a book, again, something hard for outsiders to understand so the first thing they usually do is throw out terms like "elitist".

You mention aircraft numbers; again, AT pilots bring zero aircraft, those belonged to AT, bought by SWA, from monies earned by SWA pilots. AT pilots bring a liability of industry arbitrations showing seat locks, counter to reasonable seniority awards. This would be "a harm" against those SWA FO's who are senior to an AT pilot who gets to keep his seat, get our pay which we spent negotiating capital on, and gets it for life.

Do you not agree SWA pilots sacrificed a minimum three years of no growth/zero upgrades so cash could be accumulated for the eventual buyout of AAI? That money could have purchased SWA jets, not AT jets.

You mention the hypothetical DAL takeover of SWA, given SWA's track record, it's more likely the other way around. We have cash on hand to buy AA outright, but aren't that stupid.

I'll finish and say I see your point, but my point makes more sense, so we'll have to agree to disagree.

Just to clarify a point; the (post acquisition) net cash used for the buyout was $35 million. This is the net after accounting for the cash that AAI had on hand that SWA took possession of. The rest of the purchase was in stock.

S

 

[scoreboardII]

And $2B in aquired debt.

 

[The Prussian]

And $2B in aquired debt.

I was just about to say that.