It's like AT ALPA is trying to burn their undeserved lottery ticket...

[Music]

Give me a break. You will never vote NO and you will never give up your seat. You will vote yes because it is human nature. You care about yourself and you do not care about anybody else. You might say you do but behind close doors you will vote yes because it benefits you. Nobody is buying your sad story.

I'm not trying to "sell" my story to anyone. And while you may think that this is some "ploy" by me to change people's minds, you're mistaken. I only speak for myself, period. Regardless of what you may think, I will vote no (again, if it goes to a membership vote), and I will do it begrudgingly knowing all the possible ramifications.

 

[Music]

Music,

This thing sucks for both sides. It's all about perspective.

Agreed. And I would expect pilots at SWA to vote their conscience based on a through examination of the agreement and how it effects them as well.

 

[Whine Lover]

Cometman,

I "buy" his story.

It's NOT all about money, and he explained what his priorities were.

Hard to believe, I know, but some of us think differently than the rest.

( Said the Man who just passed up a 747 Captain's seat after only 1 year at his new employer...")

WHAT? WHO would do that? You may ask.

I suppose you don't believe that either...But it's true.

WHY?

Basically for the same main reason our friend Music previously mentioned:

- QOL

+ I don't need the extra money

+ I don't need the extra responsibility

+ I don't need the "prestige"

+ I already have the cool hat

+ Chicks dig me anyway....( after I explain to them... exactly why.)

We don't all think alike, money is not the only motivator, and it's a smart individual who does not base his decisions on what seems to be the obvious....Because many times, it isn't.

YKMKR

P.S. - I forgot to add another reason: After 12 years as a Boeing Captain previously, my SIC time is sorely lacking, so I am trying to build that up. Then I'll have that going for me too.... Which will be nice.

 

[Ty Webb]

I think we would quite a few junior CA's give up the seat, if they had any seniority as an FO to fall back on. Under this agreement, I doubt many will give it up, just to be a mid-level FO.

That's part of the problem with this agreement, it isn't an "organic" solution. DOH would have been more logical, and probably would have resulted in 250+ CA seats going to SWA FO's. Instead, there will be a sub-caste of migrant-worker Captains. These 5 month Captains will be FO's during slow months, and CA's during the summer.

 

[Cometman]

Cometman,

I "buy" his story.

It's NOT all about money, and he explained what his priorities were.

Hard to believe, I know, but some of us think differently than the rest.

( Said the Man who just passed up a 747 Captain's seat after only 1 year at his new employer...")

WHAT? WHO would do that? You may ask.

I suppose you don't believe that either...But it's true.

WHY?

Basically for the same main reason our friend Music previously mentioned:

- QOL

+ I don't need the extra money

+ I don't need the extra responsibility

+ I don't need the "prestige"

+ I already have the cool hat

+ Chicks dig me anyway....( after I explain to them... exactly why.)

We don't all think alike, money is not the only motivator, and it's a smart individual who does not base his decisions on what seems to be the obvious....Because many times, it isn't.

YKMKR

P.S. - I forgot to add another reason: After 12 years as a Boeing Captain previously, my SIC time is sorely lacking, so I am trying to build that up. Then I'll have that going for me too.... Which will be nice.

When it is all over there will be ZERO Airtran Captains that give up their seat. What they say here to show support for their First Officers is just bull. They care about themselves. The junior First Officers will also vote yes to get away from Airtran. You now have 51%. In the real world nobody cares about anybody except their immediate family and themselves. When a pilot dies the first think you ask is what was his seniority number. If it was junior to you then you feel bad. If he was senior you move up one. That is life and you need to get use to it. I know it sounds cruel but that is the way it is. This goes for the SWA side also.

 

[Music]

When it is all over there will be ZERO Airtran Captains that give up their seat. What they say here to show support for their First Officers is just bull. They care about themselves. The junior First Officers will also vote yes to get away from Airtran. You now have 51%. In the real world nobody cares about anybody except their immediate family and themselves. When a pilot dies the first think you ask is what was his seniority number. If it was junior to you then you feel bad. If he was senior you move up one. That is life and you need to get use to it. I know it sounds cruel but that is the way it is. This goes for the SWA side also.

You just stated why I will vote no Comet. Because I care about my family FIRST. While I do sympathize with our FOs, my decision to vote no is based solely on MY perspective. It just so happens that it coincides with how most of our FOs are going to vote. They are not synonymous, just coincidental.

 

[Kharma Police]

When it is all over there will be ZERO Airtran Captains that give up their seat. What they say here to show support for their First Officers is just bull. They care about themselves. The junior First Officers will also vote yes to get away from Airtran. You now have 51%. In the real world nobody cares about anybody except their immediate family and themselves. When a pilot dies the first think you ask is what was his seniority number. If it was junior to you then you feel bad. If he was senior you move up one. That is life and you need to get use to it. I know it sounds cruel but that is the way it is. This goes for the SWA side also.

Sad, but very true,

a pilot's worst enemy is another pilot

 

[Cometman]

You just stated why I will vote no Comet. Because I care about my family FIRST. While I do sympathize with our FOs, my decision to vote no is based solely on MY perspective. It just so happens that it coincides with how most of our FOs are going to vote. They are not synonymous, just coincidental.

So if it passes then you will give up seat? Right. Will see. Just like Ty said there will not be any that give up their seat. Enough said on this subject.

 

[GoodTimes]

Voting based on what's best for some other demographic is a fools errand in this business. Vote what's best for you and your family. Let the chips fall and move forward.

First world problems

 

[hyflyin]

Sad, but very true,

a pilot's worst enemy is another pilot

No my friend, a humans worst enemy is another human, all walks of life, rich or poor. That is the sad truth.

 

[Whine Lover]

Re-read Music's original post gentlemen.

He clearly states that this is ALL about what's best for HIM.

I don't think he's trying to show any false support for anyone else or basing his decisions on how this might affect others.

He simply states that this is his perspective about what's best for him and his family.

TGR

 

[Music]

So if it passes then you will give up seat? Right. Will see. Just like Ty said there will not be any that give up their seat. Enough said on this subject.

What I said is that it will be a slow arduous process watching my QOL slip away until I can't take it anymore and then likely give up my seat. No one can predict what's going to happen. But based on the "No growth" comments by GK during the 2nd quarter CC I would say that my predictions are valid at this point in time.

 

[The Prussian]

A_R_B_I_T_R_A_T_I_O_N! It worked for Frontier! And ATA! Ooopps, 0 for 2... Let EISCHEN work his magic, and THEN you can blame someone for real! Then you can get back to whining, complaining and talking smack about each other....its what pilots do!

to which OYS replied:

It did work for companies with the same sized planes, like Colgan (DH8-400s) with PNCL and Mesaba. It worked with USAir (relative after the top 500 due to some differences with international flying and some larger A330s). Frontier was not stapled to Republic, even though it did have a worse balance sheet. There just weren't 650 stapled pilots like the current SWA offer, at any of the recent arbitration awards. All of them seem more fair, but that is a choice the AT pilots need to make.

...Uh...if you think relative worked for USAir, then you're not grounded in reality. :erm:

I think what arbitration does, is prove that it doesn't work.

 

[DougCorp-9]

So if it passes then you will give up seat? Right. Will see. Just like Ty said there will not be any that give up their seat. Enough said on this subject.

WE CAN'T GIVE UP OUR SEAT!!! If we do we have to wait for all SWA fos to upgrade before we can bid the left seat again. EVEN IF THEY ARE JUNIOR TO US!! If I could get the left seat when my seniority would hold it again then I would give it up for awhile. I don't have a choice because of the way the language is written.

 

[Cometman]

WE CAN'T GIVE UP OUR SEAT!!! If we do we have to wait for all SWA fos to upgrade before we can bid the left seat again. EVEN IF THEY ARE JUNIOR TO US!! If I could get the left seat when my seniority would hold it again then I would give it up for awhile. I don't have a choice because of the way the language is written.

That is why no Airtran Captain will give up his seat.