It is time for you to eat crow!

[Raoul Duke]

it does not change the fact that if most of us were in that same situation we would have opened the door, had the passengers exit the AC and forced the airport to deal with the problem.

 

[IBNAV8R]

it does not change the fact that if most of us were in that same situation we would have opened the door, had the passengers exit the AC and forced the airport to deal with the problem.

Of course all of you were there and know the facts first hand. At least you have ALL the facts and every tidbit of information the captain had or didn't have to consider. Lacking stairs and a life or injury threatening emergency, I likely would not have deplaned either. Loose on the ramp is also not my idea of a safe place for any passenger of typical intelligence.

 

[crashpad]

I likely would not have deplaned either. Loose on the ramp is also not my idea of a safe place for any passenger of typical intelligence.

...and therein is the difference between Captain and lemming.
In this world there are "yes" people and ""no people".
'Problem solvers' and 'problem makers'.
You lack testicular fortitude.
If, and when, you attain a level of testosterone to accept responsibility for your choices instead of fear of consequence, then you will ready to Captain a plane with passengers.

 

[onewithwings]

it does not change the fact that if most of us were in that same situation we would have opened the door, had the passengers exit the AC and forced the airport to deal with the problem.

I have to agree! As a DX'er I have had to divert flights to godforsaken places...we all have. There's no way I would have allowed those passengers to remain onboard for that amount of time. Where was their dispatcher in all of this???

 

[IBNAV8R]

What, evacuate the airplane without stairs? Emergency exits? You've now had what the NTSB calls an incident. An elderly gentleman breaks an ankle during the 'emergency evacuation'. Guess what? The NTSB calls this an accident. You WILL answer for that. Not only that, but the accident was solely due to a decision on your part. You're not authorized on this ramp much less escort passengers- TSA gets involved. Now, take the crash axe so you can break into the locked terminal and scuffle with dumbass ramper who happens to be there even though the terminal is closed. Wait for police to arrive.

Sounds to me like she MADE the tough call.

 

[WayBack]

I have to agree! As a DX'er I have had to divert flights to godforsaken places...we all have. There's no way I would have allowed those passengers to remain onboard for that amount of time. Where was their dispatcher in all of this???

What does he care? His flight is on the ground, he's given his pass down to the overnight guy and has gone home to his own comfy bed.

 

[dispatchguy]

I have to agree! As a DX'er I have had to divert flights to godforsaken places...we all have. There's no way I would have allowed those passengers to remain onboard for that amount of time. Where was their dispatcher in all of this???

He was probably searching for the end of the internet....

 

[QOL_is_great:)]

The first of many how much better of a pilot I am than the XJT crew in Rochester, MN. I bet XJT, with its own CHARTER OPERATION (unlike most regionals) never thought of this.

Call the FBO, see what time it closes. It is hard to unload at an FBO that has no one on duty, or so I have heard.

Signature closes at normal business hours unless requested to stay open by an inbound crew or company. Guess what, the XJT crew did not call, so I guess they are at fault. That was sarcasm and so is this. They should have know they were going to divert at 12 o'clock in the morning and planned ahead to tell Signature in RST.

Oh yeah, and the stairs they happen to have that fits an EMB-145XR, gosh XJT crews are mornons.

Next?

It's nice to see ya sticking up for a fellow JungleJet driver!! Here is a small fact about Signature Flight Support. They do have 24 hr. ops. Most do have stairs that'll work with an ERJ.

Rochester International Airport
Executive Terminal
7300 Brataas Dr SW
Rochester, MN 55902
Phone: 507.282.1717 | Fax: 507.282.9939
ARINC: 122.95
Email: [email protected]
Fuel Brand: AvFuel
Open: 24 hours/7 days a week

One of the lessons learned here is if others tell a captain what to do then it's still the captain's authority to decide the saftey and well-being of the crew and it's pax. We will never know what a call placed to 911 would have resulted in. That would have been funny to see a few fire trucks and police arrive at the airport. At least the crew is off the hook and we can all bet the crew will never let themselves get pushed around again.

I still like to see at least one pax, if not all, file false-imprisonment charges against Mesaba and it's station folks who played a part in this situation. That would be funny too.

 

[acaTerry]

If Chuck Norris had been the Captain, He would have cut a hole in the fusilage with his bare hands and got the hostages out.

Puh leez....the weather would have parted for Chuck Norris!

 

[Dubya]

So to all the members of this forum on this thread, that blasted this crew, and gave us THEIR own prolific analogy of how awesome they are, and how awesome of a job they would have done, it is time to apologize. In the end, it was just as it sounded to be from the beginning, it was NOT THE CREW that caused this situation. I have seen only a few actually eat their words on a different thread. It is time for those of you who think their sh!t does not stink to finally admit you are no better than MSNBC, CNN, FOX, etc., on reporting facts. You are so smart, and have such knowledge, we should bow down to you when you approach the jetway. I am looking forward to all of the "well........the crew should have....ah........" Sad, no wonder our career is gone now, it is people like the ones on the thread below that have brought us to this point. What is bad for someone else, is good for me. An old saying comes to mind, " he who cast the first stone in a glass house." A.K.A, that means STFU till the facts are know. Again see the thread below of the best in our industry. Then read the PRESS RELEASES below that.

The best pilots in the world thread
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=124973


The truth
http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/...4_FORTUNE5.htm

http://www.kttc.com/Global/story.asp?S=10969169

Note: This is not direct at everyone on the above thread, just the best of best who know who's fault it was and what they should have done.

FAR Part 1 Defines pilot-in-command as follows: Pilot in command means the person who: (1) Has final authority and responsibility for the operation and safety of the flight; (2) Has been designated as pilot in command before or during the flight; and (3) Holds the appropriate category, class, and type rating, if appropriate, for the conduct of the flight.



Anything else you'd like to add?


W

 

[IBNAV8R]

To paraphrase a quote from a favorite movie:

"There's just one thing. And there's really no way to get around it. You, nor I, nor anyone else here, was the Pilot in Command of flight 2816 on that date."

 

[NEDude]

The only issue I have with this blame of Mesaba was that they were under no obligation to assist a competing company. Now if there was an agreement between ExpressJet and Mesaba in place, then I stand corrected. But I would assume this employee (was there only one on duty for them) was being paid to be there by Mesaba to do work on behalf of Mesaba, whether it be working a flight of theirs or paperwork, or whatever it may be. Now yes, out of human decency you would expect them to help out. But there are some logistical issues that extend just beyond potential security screening.

What we do not know is what would have happened after the passengers were deplaned. Would it have created a situation where the Mesaba employee would have had to remain on duty past her shift? Is there a prohibition against over time at Mesaba? Did the Expressjet dispatch provide any guidance to the Mesaba regarding what the timeframe would be before departure? If the passengers were to deplane, did ExpressJet provide guidance regarding reboarding? I do not know how ExpressJet dispatch works, but at the three airlines I have worked for, anytime there is abnormal operations dispatch can be chaotic. So I find it quite feasable that a lone, low wage Mesaba employee nearing the end of her shift being asked by a competator to assist a flight but not getting much direction would say "screw it, I am going to finish my shift and go home".

 

[STINKER]

How long has this girl been a captain with the company? Is she another 2 yr FO who was upgraded?
The problem today is that we have too many kids ACTING as PIC who can't even make a decision for themselves, so affraid to think outside the box because they might get called into the CP's office for the dance.
First off, to accept this place as an alternate and to agree to divert there was the dumbest thing on her part. She should have gone to an ExpressJet operated airport...such as Des Moines. But she probably just listened to dispatch tell her where to go and she was all fine with that.
It goes back to your security question. Who is in charge? The PIC is no longer in charge....well, they'd like you to think otherwise, but really, you're not. The company says the ground security cooridinator is in charge while the airplane is on the ground. When it's in flight, the dispatcher is.
So why would she bother thinking for herself? Her whole career she has been told what to do and had never had to think for herself.
The old regional I flew for, perfect example. You could listen on the DX freq when people were put into holds. The minute that happened, you heard pilots calling dispatch "We have this much fuel, we're holding at XXX with an EFC of 1234. How much time does that give us and what do you want us to do?" ......really?

You could hardly refer to this captain as a girl. She's a mature woman with a good bit of seniority and a level head. Assumptions suck.. You're a genius and this would have never happened to you. Karma is a bit#h man. A dynamic ever changing weather situation with not a lot of time to think and they ended up in RST. You act as if they dumped the airplane in someones backyard. No one was hurt during this divert, but several people were severely inconvenienced. We should all learn from this event. Enjoy your flawless career Captain Awesome!

 

[jppt2000]

You could hardly refer to this captain as a girl. She's a mature woman with a good bit of seniority and a level head. Assumptions suck.. You're a genius and this would have never happened to you. Karma is a bit#h man. A dynamic ever changing weather situation with not a lot of time to think and they ended up in RST. You act as if they dumped the airplane in someones backyard. No one was hurt during this divert, but several people were severely inconvenienced. We should all learn from this event. Enjoy your flawless career Captain Awesome!

IMO you have lost all credibility with that part of your statement.
Captain and crew, failed their pax.

 

[laserman2431]

FAR Part 1 Defines Dubya as follows: Dubya means the D-bag who: (1) Gets on Flight Info and demonstrates that he has an a$$hole right in the middle of his forehead; (2) Has been designated as Dubya before or during the flight; and (3) Holds the appropriate category, class, and type rating, if appropriate, for the conduct of the flight.



Anything else you'd like to add?

L

 

[CFI2766]

Every poster on this thread has taken a situation where something could be learned and generally turned it into a personal attack on an anonymous captain.

Give the captain some credit for getting the airplane safely on the ground and keeping the passengers safe. Remember, this is our overall first priority.

Then, given what is known about the situation, learn from the mistakes of this event and apply it to your ops.


That is all.

 

[Wasted]

The only issue I have with this blame of Mesaba was that they were under no obligation to assist a competing company. Now if there was an agreement between ExpressJet and Mesaba in place, then I stand corrected. But I would assume this employee (was there only one on duty for them) was being paid to be there by Mesaba to do work on behalf of Mesaba, whether it be working a flight of theirs or paperwork, or whatever it may be. Now yes, out of human decency you would expect them to help out. But there are some logistical issues that extend just beyond potential security screening.

What we do not know is what would have happened after the passengers were deplaned. Would it have created a situation where the Mesaba employee would have had to remain on duty past her shift? Is there a prohibition against over time at Mesaba? Did the Expressjet dispatch provide any guidance to the Mesaba regarding what the timeframe would be before departure? If the passengers were to deplane, did ExpressJet provide guidance regarding reboarding? I do not know how ExpressJet dispatch works, but at the three airlines I have worked for, anytime there is abnormal operations dispatch can be chaotic. So I find it quite feasable that a lone, low wage Mesaba employee nearing the end of her shift being asked by a competator to assist a flight but not getting much direction would say "screw it, I am going to finish my shift and go home".

So what? You don't think Mesaba would have billed Xjt at the end?

 

[STINKER]

IMO you have lost all credibility with that part of your statement.
Captain and crew, failed their pax.

Oh no! You have stripped me of my credibility what ever shall I do? What exactly would you have done in this situation ? I am sure your response will begin with it depends on the situation yada ..yada... yada... Were you there on the plane in RST trying to interpret all the information you were getting or not getting. Lay off they handled the flying portion of the divert quite well. The ground snafu sucked and they and everyone else will learn from it. This place is full of webposters attacking a crew based on assumptions. You can take my credibilty and shove it up you A$$ for all I care.

 

[laserman2431]

I guess the ironic part of this whole story is that there have probably been much worse situations in the recent past that did not receive this kind of attention. I think there has been some renewed interested in our lawmakers putting together some kind of travelers bill of rights. That may be the reason for all the attention.

 

[jppt2000]

Oh no! You have stripped me of my credibility what ever shall I do? What exactly would you have done in this situation ? I am sure your response will begin with it depends on the situation yada ..yada... yada... Were you there on the plane in RST trying to interpret all the information you were getting or not getting. Lay off they handled the flying portion of the divert quite well. The ground snafu sucked and they and everyone else will learn from it. This place is full of webposters attacking a crew based on assumptions. You can take my credibilty and shove it up you A$$ for all I care.

I believe you either don't understand my posts or you refuse to admit many airline companies (both major and regional) and some flight crews really don't care about the comfort, and convenience of their pax.
Some of what you've posted reinforces my original post.
I believe the vast majority of professional flight crews (including this crew) are safe and technically competent in their flying skills, yet they really don't either know or care how many pax are mistreated starting from buying their ticket on the web, until getting their luggage.
You want the flight crew to be commended for doing their job?
I thought handling a divert well and getting our passengers safely to their destinations were all part of the job.
That's why you and I get a paycheck.
A few simple phone calls to an FBO, were not thought of.
Claiming ignorance of this fact doesn't excuse the parties involved in this case.
The Captain's excuse "I was just doing what I was told" and "I really tried", does not work here.
IMO the Crew could and should of done more for their pax.
CAL, Expressjet, and Mesaba, failed their pax.
Watch for a pax bill of rights coming soon.