Island Air sold

[Trash8Mofo]

Re: I.A.

I think the thought of selling a profitable part of your company is very suspicious. But those of us who know the Air Group, probably know that even though Island Air is about to be sold, there is definitely more to the story. Island Air along with the E.R. routes and cargo operations have been profitable the last 2 quarters. Another thing that was mentioned on Friday was that if Island Air becomes profitable Aloha will benefit. Chew on that one for awhile, you'll get even more confused.

How about this for a theory: Aloha sold Island Air so that it can expand as much as necessary because it wont be restricted by ALPA's scope. However, WP and Willis is still kinda controlled by Aloha because the operation is dictated by the code-share agreement. Aloha will use Island Air to provide the frequence and flexibility (and cost structure)that Hawaiian cannot match. In two years, Aloha and its feeder, Island Air, will control 80% of the interisland market. Hawaiian may continue to be in BK, and maybe even driven out. And since Aloha sold 100% of Island Air, technically it is a seperate airline, hence no monopoly problem. In other words, Aloha has just came to realize that Island Air need not only be a marketing amenity (like juice and movie, according to managment), but as a business tool to dominate the market.
(Disclaimer: Its just a factless prediction. I personally have no problem with HAL or its pilots, I sincerely do not wish chapter 7 on anybody)

 

[Freight Dog]

A couple of things... apparently ALPA is reviewing the scope language as it may pertain to AQ code. As it is, there will most likely be a major grievance filed to prevent the company from allowing Island Air to use the AQ code on routes specified in our scope.

Secondly, we had a SWA jumpseater today who said there are "strong rumors around SWA" that they're buying Aloha.

In any case... this whole thing is baffling.

 

[islandhopper]

Secondly, we had a SWA jumpseater today who said there are "strong rumors around SWA" that they're buying Aloha.

In any case... this whole thing is baffling. [/B]

I wouldnt bet any money on WN buying us. It could happen... I know stranger things have... The whole sale of Island Air (and lack of explanations) is stoking the WN buying AQ rumor this weekend.

I am giving our mgmt the benefit of the doubt, It could just be bad timing on WP's part announcing this early, or it was an intentional leak on WP's part. We will get the rest of the story soon I imagine. I hope im right.

In any case a lawsuit from ALPA blocking a codeshare without the existing scope protection may just scare away any potential suitors... If thats what this is all about but we dont know.. We should just wait and see what comes to light this week.

Worst case scenario being bought by WN would suck! (dont take it personal guys, most of us like being home in Hawaii every night) But I could think of worse things happening to us.

My flight school buddies would really be pissed at me if I got absorbed into Southwest. Most of them are nowhere near competitives for a Southwest groundschool. Thats the airline most of them want to work at, not me! Why cant southwest buy Mesa, fire the thugs running that airline and leave us in Hawaii alone?

 

[Sleepyhead]

I wouldn't give much thought about the WN buying AQ rumor.
Most likely started by a senior WN pilot who is sick of 4-5 legs a day and living on soda and peanuts and dreaming how nice it would be to fly a -700 to Hawaii, have a lay-over in Waikiki, and get a first class meal, cookies and milk when working.

 

[Nalo Boy]

no fly list

Hey dash,

No, not gonna bring the helmet in, unless you want to use it. By the way, i didnt know i had a "no fly list", lemme know where its posted so i can see who's on it.

T

 

[Nalo Boy]

SWA buy idea

makes sense, why would Aloha air group sell into a competitor, especially with some of the highest quarterly profits theyve EVER made? getting rid of WP was a condition of Aloha's sale, this idea may have been thrown out before, but if not ...chew on that for a while.

 

[Krusty]

sounds like a form of union busting....

AQ sells off all of Island Air, AQ reduces the Inter-island flying on purpose, allows Island to fly it via code share,

Now the AQ pilots cannot grieve the matter, ie, scope.

AQ is reducing costs and allowing a lower paid pilot group fly the routes. By reducing their own flights and saving that expense of the pilots salaries.

whether AQ expands or not, they just cut the overhead, and still have control of the flying, the public has no idea, to them it is still an AQ ticket from A to B.

just a thought IMHO, no rebuttal intended

 

[Nalo Boy]

Dash,

I finally got the joke...didnt realize who you were at first, scared me for a minute. You need to change your alias.

 

[dash8driver]

haha.. yea i was wondering if you were gonna catch on since its been a while. i was thinking about the alias and if i should change it but decided to wait because i dont know if i should change it to AQDriver or SWADriver..

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

sounds like a form of union busting....

AQ sells off all of Island Air, AQ reduces the Inter-island flying on purpose, allows Island to fly it via code share,

Now the AQ pilots cannot grieve the matter, ie, scope.

AQ is reducing costs and allowing a lower paid pilot group fly the routes. By reducing their own flights and saving that expense of the pilots salaries.

whether AQ expands or not, they just cut the overhead, and still have control of the flying, the public has no idea, to them it is still an AQ ticket from A to B.

Yep. Union meeting with the new owner today. When asked directly how much of the company the Ching's and Ing's owned, he waffled and said there were aspects of the deal that remain "confidential".

Also, take a look at Zander's statement to the press. To paraphrase, he said AQ had been looking to expand WP for a long time and selling it off was the best way to do it. Yeah, selling it back to themselves under another name. Couldn't believe the pilot group actually clapped at the end of the meeting. For every new pilot that gets hired at WP over the next few months, that's one less that will be hired across the street. Island Air...A.K.A Aloha B-scale. This purely looks like a scope weasil move to me.

As far as AQ selling to WN, the route maps sure match up nicely, but the move would be very un-Herb-like. At this point nothing would surprise me.

Can't wait for the other AQ shoe to drop!

 

[402driver]

Say What??

I normally don’t play Devil’s Advocate, but I’ll make an exception this time…

Aloha has spent a lot of time, money, resources & patience trying to make money in the interisland market and, according to AQ management, hasn’t made any money for the last 10 years.

Now…Island Air (WP) would be flying the majority of interisland flights, using their time, money, resources & patience and…here comes the kicker…AQ MAKES MONEY!

Yep…The code share, or what WP President terms a “joint marketing agreement” will give AQ a percentage of Revenue for all of WP flights operating under code share.

How can WP make money when AQ hasn’t been able to pull it off? Well, when you consider that WP pays its pilots, mechanics, flight attendants and everybody else about HALF of what AQ pays, and that it operates an aircraft that costs at least half as much to operate per seat mile, and then they charge MORE for their tickets…well you see how they can do it.

AQ used to do everything for nothing, now they will do nothing and get something. Not a bad deal…If your management.

As far as the pilots go…this is a pretty raw deal for both sides.

WP pilots that wanted to go to AQ…well that aint going to happen in the near future…if at all.

As far as the AQ pilots, many may have gave up opportunities elsewhere to fly for Aloha, earning less money than perhaps what they could have made elsewhere, for the sun, surf, sand and “home every night” lifestyle...That could all change. If the interisland flying is greatly reduced and the mainland & international flights are greatly increased, where do the AQ pilots end up?

So what does all of this mean? Absolutely nothing. Things will be just as they always have been. The management will do what they want, when they want.

I don’t know, I may be totally off base here, but that’s my fity centz.

 

[wanttoflyhawaii]

I think Aloha pilots and others should stop this from happening. This is a loss loss situation. Has anyone heard a news about ACA trying to make there own airline? This could be the case! I agree with the previous post many local pilots gave up less pay just to live in Hawaii. I met a retired 747 United captain several years ago who had a million dollar home with a million dollar view, nice family, nice car, bank account in swisserland, and he seems rich. He retired right after 9-11. I don't think pilots at local airlines could have this kind of life but they stayed at Aloha for many unique reasons. If you want to have the life you want, you fight for it! I am saying this because I don't want to see all prop service in Hawaii and I will end up taking low paying jobs by the time I am old enough.

 

[wanttoflyhawaii]

I think Aloha pilots and others should stop this from happening. This is a loss loss situation. Has anyone heard a news about ACA trying to make there own airline? This could be the case! I agree with the previous post many local pilots gave up less pay just to live in Hawaii. I met a retired 747 United captain several years ago who had a million dollar home with a million dollar view, nice family, nice car, bank account in swisserland, and he seems rich. He retired right after 9-11. I don't think pilots at local airlines could have this kind of life but they stayed at Aloha for many unique reasons. If you want to have the life you want, you fight for it! I am saying this because I don't want to see all prop service in Hawaii and I will end up taking low paying jobs by the time I am old enough.

 

[Freight Dog]

A couple of points:

1) AQ interisland has made money this year unlike before and here's why - the flights have been jam-packed as the availability has been reduced due to collusion with HAL, also elimination of coupons, and raising the fares. I remember flying over the summer and I could probably count on my hands the number of times when we pushed back and it wasn't a full boat. I've flown OGG-KOA route as recently as last week, and I am yet to see the justification for a DHC-8 to replace a 737 simply given the number of people and bags.

2) Take one of our full -200's. 118 people. You need 3 full DHC-8 flights to replace that 737 flight.

3) As for giving up less pay to live in Hawaii - our pay is industry-standard 737 pay (with the exception of 1st year FO pay) even with our 10% paycut. The difference is that unlike many other airlines, we don't fly overtime, so the company is forced to hire if they need more people, they're forced to upgrade if they need more captains. We don't cut each other's throat. This is a double-edged sword, our captains could make extra $3 grand to fly just 1 extra mainland trip in a month, yet they can't. This is to protect the FO's who're about to upgrade, and junior guys who would be furloughed as a result. So, did we give up pay to live here? Only if you consider no overtime as giving up pay. I see it as an honorable thing by our pilot group (by senior pilots). I would also hardly call our retirement as settling for less, as it is one of the industry-leading retirement packages.

402, I gotta disagree with you when you say "management will do what they want when they want." They'll only do that if you fold, and take it. That's why it is important to abide by your contract, and not be afraid to stand up to the company when they do things against your contract.

 

[402driver]

Contract?

A couple of points:

402, I gotta disagree with you when you say "management will do what they want when they want." They'll only do that if you fold, and take it. That's why it is important to abide by your contract, and not be afraid to stand up to the company when they do things against your contract.

According to the high-paid lawyers that Aloha AirGroup, AQ & WP have retained, the sale of WP to the Willis family is perfectly legal. And the scope clause, well it no longer is applicable to WP because it is no longer owned by Aloha AirGroup. According to the lawyers, not me, they are well within their contractual obligaitions.

So...What should we pilots do? Refuse to fly? Get all HuHu. Develope bad attitudes. Then WE will be outside of our contractual obligations and WE will be the ones that are breaking our word, and WE will be the ones that will get LEGALLY fired!

But the scope clause was supposed to have prevented all of this mess to begin with, right? Well, like most every other contractual document, there are loopholes in the Scope Clause. And my friend...I think Aloha AirGroup's management has figured out a way to fit a DHC-8 through one of them!

As far as the pay...Ask a 20 year captain of a major what they are getting paid to drive a 737-700. Overtime or no Overtime, the two figures are not even close. True, the defined benifits plan at AQ is AWSOME! But...Money and happieness are relative terms. I would rather get paid less and work for AQ than get paid buku bucks and live the Major's lifestyle (hotels, trips, hotels, trips, divorce, trips, hotels, scandal, trips, hotel..........) But...that's just me. What can I say, I grew up in Hawaii, my family is in Hawaii, my life is in Hawaii. AQ is not a bad gig at all, the pay is fair for the work performed and the work environment is the best imaginable. All I'm saying is that, if AQ transforms into a different animal, compensation and lifestyle will also transform. Take it for what it's worth.

I do not know all of the facts and I am not saying I am right in everything I have posted. All I am doing is putting things out there for people to think about.

Freight Dog, How you doing buddy? It's been a long time.