Island Air sold

[Freight Dog]

Well, I don't know... last numbers we had was that we had $12.6 mil net profit in 3rd quarter alone, and that we're paying off $10 mil this year off of ATSB loan. Actually, according to Zander, this has been the best year for the company ever - go figure.

Also, we're finishing the year sufficiently enough in the black that the company would have to pay out profit-sharing. The speculation is that this is a simple way to go around our scope which the company apparently has been trying to get around for a while. Secondly, ATSB had to give approval for this purchase, they could have blocked it.

But somehow, I'm STILL having a difficult time understanding why our management would create another competitor by selling 100% of Island Air. There has GOT to be more to this that we're not hearing about.

 

[wanttoflyhawaii]

Is Island Air profitable and how many seats does each flights usually fill?

 

[dash8driver]

no one ever knew if it was profitable or not. it was a well kept sercret and they burried any financial information into aloha air group. the management was always doom and gloom about their finances... "re-use your paperclips and staples, bring your own toilet paper, we need to save money". thats not literal, but not far off from their attitudes.

the loads on the planes varied widely.. sometimes you'd have 5 people, sometimes full. i think the average load is roughly 20, give or take. the average varies depending upon what season it is and what route. molokai usually has a lot of room, but during the canoe races, you can forget walking up to get a ticket.... they even make extra sections to keep up with the demand.

 

[General Lee]

I know what the big announcement is for the Aloha guys----"Mesa and Jon Ornstein are going to buy you and then ship you and the airplanes to Philadelphia to feed USAir."

Bring a jacket.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Slim Dusty]

Hey guys, don't usually speak up, but...

Why would a company sell off a portion of itself to have that portion become a direct competetor? To allow that portion to grow as Zander stated? Makes no sense, its money in someone elses pocket. To get around a scope? Once again why, its money in someone else's pocket. The "we're broke" argument doesn't wash in light of our 3rd Qtr, debt paydown, and solid loads both inter-island and -700 club. Perhaps its a prelude to Aloha being sold to another airline which doesn't want to be in the prop business. Rumors have been more rife than usual concerning this same topic the last few months. Even flew with a guy who told me while jumpseating a SWA Capt said "Looks like we're buying you" so rumors have reached there as well. This theory also jibes fairly closely to Zander's "everyone will be happy" statement.

Just another log to throw on the rumor fire. Don't we go through this every Chrisymas?

 

[topdawg]

asdf

Here's somthing to think about. If SWA were to buy out Aloha, all Aloha pilots would go to the bottom of the list seening that SWA is not part of ALPA. That can't be the "good news" Zander is talking about.

 

[Sleepyhead]

Well , lots of rumors and speculation out there... but on Tues the IA pilots have a meeting with the CEO and the new owner. After that we should have a lot more facts.

FWIW, on Fri the CEO came over to the IA ops area and had a little meeting /annoucement. (I wasn't there, but here is what he said )
- we have a new owner, no one is going to loose their job, we are getting 5 new airplanes, in March we will start flying to the Big Island (Hilo and Kona), sometime after that flying to Lihue, plan to hire about 100 new employees.

and for the rumor mill:
I heard from a good source this deal has been in the works for awhile, like since the beginning of the year.(man can they keep a secret!)

for you IA poolies, I wouldn't worry, in fact I would start making plans. Just consider this:
currently it takes about 2 months to get a pilot on-line at IA. Even if they only put 3 new planes on-line in March, that would double the fleet. They need to start training soon. It would take time to set up interviews, so my guess is they will first contact all the poolies and see who is interested.

It will be interesting to watch how they handle some of the logistics of this:
-there are only 4 parking spots on the IA ramp, and only two
have fueling. Will be fun with a fleet of 9.
- need to hire a bunch of mechanics and get them trained
- need a bunch of FA/s and get them trained
- get some stations set up and train the people to run them
- get things set up in dispatch (right now there are a bunch new
dispatchers just learning the current system)
the list goes on...
all this in 2.5 months to start up in March.

 

[Sleepyhead]

from the local paper:


The airline will add six new routes -- Kona to Maui, Hilo to Maui, Maui to Lihue, and Honolulu to Hilo, Kona and Lihue. The fares on these routes have not been determined.

"We will be flying more directs and nonstop flights," Takekawa said. "But we don't expect to see an exponential change in operation. We are trying to improve service that is out there."

The DASH-8 seats 37 passengers and makes more economical sense to operate in the interisland market than the 120-seat jets Aloha and Hawaiian fly, Takekawa says. The first priority will be to open the Hilo and Kona offices and hire about 20 people, he said.

Island Air's new owners will add five more aircraft -- either buy or lease -- to meet expansions. On average, a DASH-8 aircraft costs abut $4 million, Takekawa said.

(sorry, no RJs in HI)

 

[Slim Dusty]

Concerning AQ pilots to bottom of the list. As part of our ATSB concessions, we were given contractual language that prevents any sale to another carrier were such a thing to occur.

 

[HawaiianAV8TR]

I.A.

I think the thought of selling a profitable part of your company is very suspicious. But those of us who know the Air Group, probably know that even though Island Air is about to be sold, there is definitely more to the story. Island Air along with the E.R. routes and cargo operations have been profitable the last 2 quarters. Another thing that was mentioned on Friday was that if Island Air becomes profitable Aloha will benefit. Chew on that one for awhile, you'll get even more confused.

 

[Trash8Mofo]

Re: I.A.

I think the thought of selling a profitable part of your company is very suspicious. But those of us who know the Air Group, probably know that even though Island Air is about to be sold, there is definitely more to the story. Island Air along with the E.R. routes and cargo operations have been profitable the last 2 quarters. Another thing that was mentioned on Friday was that if Island Air becomes profitable Aloha will benefit. Chew on that one for awhile, you'll get even more confused.

How about this for a theory: Aloha sold Island Air so that it can expand as much as necessary because it wont be restricted by ALPA's scope. However, WP and Willis is still kinda controlled by Aloha because the operation is dictated by the code-share agreement. Aloha will use Island Air to provide the frequence and flexibility (and cost structure)that Hawaiian cannot match. In two years, Aloha and its feeder, Island Air, will control 80% of the interisland market. Hawaiian may continue to be in BK, and maybe even driven out. And since Aloha sold 100% of Island Air, technically it is a seperate airline, hence no monopoly problem. In other words, Aloha has just came to realize that Island Air need not only be a marketing amenity (like juice and movie, according to managment), but as a business tool to dominate the market.
(Disclaimer: Its just a factless prediction. I personally have no problem with HAL or its pilots, I sincerely do not wish chapter 7 on anybody)

 

[Freight Dog]

A couple of things... apparently ALPA is reviewing the scope language as it may pertain to AQ code. As it is, there will most likely be a major grievance filed to prevent the company from allowing Island Air to use the AQ code on routes specified in our scope.

Secondly, we had a SWA jumpseater today who said there are "strong rumors around SWA" that they're buying Aloha.

In any case... this whole thing is baffling.

 

[islandhopper]

Secondly, we had a SWA jumpseater today who said there are "strong rumors around SWA" that they're buying Aloha.

In any case... this whole thing is baffling. [/B]

I wouldnt bet any money on WN buying us. It could happen... I know stranger things have... The whole sale of Island Air (and lack of explanations) is stoking the WN buying AQ rumor this weekend.

I am giving our mgmt the benefit of the doubt, It could just be bad timing on WP's part announcing this early, or it was an intentional leak on WP's part. We will get the rest of the story soon I imagine. I hope im right.

In any case a lawsuit from ALPA blocking a codeshare without the existing scope protection may just scare away any potential suitors... If thats what this is all about but we dont know.. We should just wait and see what comes to light this week.

Worst case scenario being bought by WN would suck! (dont take it personal guys, most of us like being home in Hawaii every night) But I could think of worse things happening to us.

My flight school buddies would really be pissed at me if I got absorbed into Southwest. Most of them are nowhere near competitives for a Southwest groundschool. Thats the airline most of them want to work at, not me! Why cant southwest buy Mesa, fire the thugs running that airline and leave us in Hawaii alone?

 

[Sleepyhead]

I wouldn't give much thought about the WN buying AQ rumor.
Most likely started by a senior WN pilot who is sick of 4-5 legs a day and living on soda and peanuts and dreaming how nice it would be to fly a -700 to Hawaii, have a lay-over in Waikiki, and get a first class meal, cookies and milk when working.

 

[Nalo Boy]

no fly list

Hey dash,

No, not gonna bring the helmet in, unless you want to use it. By the way, i didnt know i had a "no fly list", lemme know where its posted so i can see who's on it.

T

 

[Nalo Boy]

SWA buy idea

makes sense, why would Aloha air group sell into a competitor, especially with some of the highest quarterly profits theyve EVER made? getting rid of WP was a condition of Aloha's sale, this idea may have been thrown out before, but if not ...chew on that for a while.

 

[Krusty]

sounds like a form of union busting....

AQ sells off all of Island Air, AQ reduces the Inter-island flying on purpose, allows Island to fly it via code share,

Now the AQ pilots cannot grieve the matter, ie, scope.

AQ is reducing costs and allowing a lower paid pilot group fly the routes. By reducing their own flights and saving that expense of the pilots salaries.

whether AQ expands or not, they just cut the overhead, and still have control of the flying, the public has no idea, to them it is still an AQ ticket from A to B.

just a thought IMHO, no rebuttal intended

 

[Nalo Boy]

Dash,

I finally got the joke...didnt realize who you were at first, scared me for a minute. You need to change your alias.

 

[dash8driver]

haha.. yea i was wondering if you were gonna catch on since its been a while. i was thinking about the alias and if i should change it but decided to wait because i dont know if i should change it to AQDriver or SWADriver..

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

sounds like a form of union busting....

AQ sells off all of Island Air, AQ reduces the Inter-island flying on purpose, allows Island to fly it via code share,

Now the AQ pilots cannot grieve the matter, ie, scope.

AQ is reducing costs and allowing a lower paid pilot group fly the routes. By reducing their own flights and saving that expense of the pilots salaries.

whether AQ expands or not, they just cut the overhead, and still have control of the flying, the public has no idea, to them it is still an AQ ticket from A to B.

Yep. Union meeting with the new owner today. When asked directly how much of the company the Ching's and Ing's owned, he waffled and said there were aspects of the deal that remain "confidential".

Also, take a look at Zander's statement to the press. To paraphrase, he said AQ had been looking to expand WP for a long time and selling it off was the best way to do it. Yeah, selling it back to themselves under another name. Couldn't believe the pilot group actually clapped at the end of the meeting. For every new pilot that gets hired at WP over the next few months, that's one less that will be hired across the street. Island Air...A.K.A Aloha B-scale. This purely looks like a scope weasil move to me.

As far as AQ selling to WN, the route maps sure match up nicely, but the move would be very un-Herb-like. At this point nothing would surprise me.

Can't wait for the other AQ shoe to drop!