Is the Southwest pay/contract sustainable at current market?

[General Lee]

amazing for sure. in my 12 years of at times very active posting and 2 years of moderator I have only 3K

I must really like to debate and like to respond to questions asked of me. Some people like Jonny really don't like that, and it is obvious he can only name call and not add anything substantive. I mean look, all he can retort is "he's got 16,000 posts." That's how he answers. I've been on here as long as you have, but I obviously respond more and try to add to the debates or discussions. He just can't do that for some reason.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[jonjuan]

And you have yet to post one with any substance. ANY!


Bye Bye---General Lee

Oh I believe this one in THIS thread is full of substance and facts:

I think she may have been implying that with many more people in training and not out on the line flying, manning will need to be greater than the leaner approach of SWA.

NEXT!!!!!!!!

 

[HA25]

I must really like to debate and like to respond to questions asked of me. Some people like Jonny really don't like that, and it is obvious he can only name call and not add anything substantive. I mean look, all he can retort is "he's got 16,000 posts." That's how he answers. I've been on here as long as you have, but I obviously respond more and try to add to the debates or discussions. He just can't do that for some reason.


Bye Bye---General Lee

over the decade plus I've (and you've) been on here, I have never had a problem with you frankly... I find you contribute quite a bit, especially from the DL perspective. At least the vast majority of your 16K posts are airline related, unlike some of the idiots I've had to play with on the "non-aviation" chat forums which I'm beginning to think many of them aren't even ATP's.. much less airline pilots.

 

[IslandDriver]

Back to the original statements regaurding pay... I am a 5 yr FO. I do not work extra....just my line...5 mo this year on reserve...on target to fly 850 hrs....on track to make about $150K....sounds like a lot...but I wonder how the number of flight hours to pay is compared to other carriers. I would work a little more but the reserve lines are pretty restrictive...and I am really too jr in my base to pick up.

ID

 

[madjack]

I truly hope that DL regains the "industry leading contract" mantle...SWA has held that spot for many years and hopefully that fact is helping our fellow pilots at other airlines make gains in their contracts...the fact that we still have a better contract than our legacy competition that is NOW making money hand over fist should not be lost on any NC...

 

[HA25]

I truly hope that DL regains the "industry leading contract" mantle...SWA has held that spot for many years and hopefully that fact is helping our fellow pilots at other airlines make gains in their contracts...the fact that we still have a better contract than our legacy competition that is NOW making money hand over fist should not be lost on any NC...

I agree... While I've never been a fan of WN, and always saw them as that ugly girl at the end of the bar after a long night of drinking (relatively attractive during that past decade when the legacies were on their backs)... Truth be told, the current WN contract is fine for a LCC... but yes, I agree, a Delta, United or American, especially those flying long haul 350+ pax airplanes needs to be paying significantly more .. this is not only critical to the profession and to keeping the WN contract viable for their business model, but it's also long over due in terms of buying power, inflation, and cost of living changes over the past decade.

 

[General Lee]

I agree... While I've never been a fan of WN, and always saw them as that ugly girl at the end of the bar after a long night of drinking (relatively attractive during that past decade when the legacies were on their backs)... Truth be told, the current WN contract is fine for a LCC... but yes, I agree, a Delta, United or American, especially those flying long haul 350+ pax airplanes needs to be paying significantly more .. this is not only critical to the profession and to keeping the WN contract viable for their business model, but it's also long over due in terms of buying power, inflation, and cost of living changes over the past decade.

When you go into BK and the judge allows a 47% pay cut, it is tough to crawl back up. Luckily, the legacies are doing better, and so far one (you know which one) has brought the bar back up, and the others will hopefully follow. Long term stability isn't a part of this industry, but consolidation will take away large competition, helping the others. Bag fees and other ancillary revenue appear to be sticking, which will also give needed revenue to those who use it. (SWA still hasn't embraced the bag fees, even though they haven't stopped it at their subsidiary AT) Even during this downturn in the economy and weakness in other areas around the globe (Europe mainly), the legacies appear to be doing well for the time being. That bodes well for better contracts in the near future, and the next one we can negotiate for will start in 2 1/2 more years. Also, everyone must remember that SWA did get their higher pay rates from DL and other legacies, not the other way around. Before 9-11 and the large DL contract, SWA paid a lot less, and SWA Captains were leaving for UAL. (fact) We are glad though, that SWA has kept their pay where it is at, no doubt, and hopefully they will keep it the same or better in future negotiations coming up here. It is tough when you are at the top, because the only way you can go is straight down. Been there already.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[HA25]

When you go into BK and the judge allows a 47% pay cut, it is tough to crawl back up. Luckily, the legacies are doing better, and so far one (you know which one) has brought the bar back up, and the others will hopefully follow. Long term stability isn't a part of this industry, but consolidation will take away large competition, helping the others. Bag fees and other ancillary revenue appear to be sticking, which will also give needed revenue to those who use it. (SWA still hasn't embraced the bag fees, even though they haven't stopped it at their subsidiary AT) Even during this downturn in the economy and weakness in other areas around the globe (Europe mainly), the legacies appear to be doing well for the time being. That bodes well for better contracts in the near future, and the next one we can negotiate for will start in 2 1/2 more years. Also, everyone must remember that SWA did get their higher pay rates from DL and other legacies, not the other way around. Before 9-11 and the large DL contract, SWA paid a lot less, and SWA Captains were leaving for UAL. (fact) We are glad though, that SWA has kept their pay where it is at, no doubt, and hopefully they will keep it the same or better in future negotiations coming up here. It is tough when you are at the top, because the only way you can go is straight down. Been there already.



Bye Bye---General Lee

true... and as an aside your MEC chairman told our MEC chairman that our post-BK contract was the bar that DALPA used for their contract. So I think we get some credit for accelerating that crawl back in 2010.

 

[Scoot 11]

This thread is exactly why I don't come around here that much any more. Is recess over yet? Or are you guys on the computer when your parents think you're asleep?
Sheesh!

 

[redflyer65]

When you go into BK and the judge allows a 47% pay cut, it is tough to crawl back up. Luckily, the legacies are doing better, and so far one (you know which one) has brought the bar back up, and the others will hopefully follow. Long term stability isn't a part of this industry, but consolidation will take away large competition, helping the others. Bag fees and other ancillary revenue appear to be sticking, which will also give needed revenue to those who use it. (SWA still hasn't embraced the bag fees, even though they haven't stopped it at their subsidiary AT) Even during this downturn in the economy and weakness in other areas around the globe (Europe mainly), the legacies appear to be doing well for the time being. That bodes well for better contracts in the near future, and the next one we can negotiate for will start in 2 1/2 more years. Also, everyone must remember that SWA did get their higher pay rates from DL and other legacies, not the other way around. Before 9-11 and the large DL contract, SWA paid a lot less, and SWA Captains were leaving for UAL. (fact) We are glad though, that SWA has kept their pay where it is at, no doubt, and hopefully they will keep it the same or better in future negotiations coming up here. It is tough when you are at the top, because the only way you can go is straight down. Been there already.



Bye Bye---General Lee

Ahhh. The stink of the Delta bankruptcy. It just never really goes away. It's still in the air.