Is the Southwest pay/contract sustainable at current market?

[General Lee]

Yeah...too bad SWA has had to compete with the bankruptcy laws instead o0f allowing business Darwinism to take place. I love these guys at DL, etc who are so proud of being so profitable, which would be something to be legitably proud of had DL and others not screwed debt holders, shred contracts, shred retirements, laid off thousands, quit making paymnets on airplanes.

Run a place into the ground and then get a free do over. Nice way to run a business. And other well run businesses have to compete with that. Yeah, that's fair.

Are you in favor of kicking people who go BK out of the country for good? Sounds like it. This is a country of second chances. Get used to it Stalin.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[scoreboardII]

second chances after you pay your debts.

 

[HA25]

second chances after you pay your debts.

spoken like someone who has never experienced a hardship.... yep, I've got mine, get yer own!

probably a "Christian" too, right?

 

[General Lee]

second chances after you pay your debts.

That is why you go BK, you can't. If you can, the BK judge won't allow it. The PBGC didn't allow AA to dump their pensions. It isn't a free for all.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Lear70]

I don't have a problem with the Bankruptcy process.

I have a problem with multi-million dollar payouts to the corporate executives who ran their companies into the ground and MULTIPLE trips through bankruptcy.

3 strikes you're out sounds pretty fair to me. Corporations should be required to run profitably or be forced out of the business. The country was NOT designed to use bankruptcy as a strategy to compete.

 

[HA25]

I don't have a problem with the Bankruptcy process.

I have a problem with multi-million dollar payouts to the corporate executives who ran their companies into the ground and MULTIPLE trips through bankruptcy.

3 strikes you're out sounds pretty fair to me. Corporations should be required to run profitably or be forced out of the business. The country was NOT designed to use bankruptcy as a strategy to compete.

totally agree on that aspect of BK law..

A priest at my church once said something very brilliant... "Americans want socialist risks and capitalist returns"... it's true. Banks, Airlines, all of them.... cry when the government taxes them, but when they need the government to bail them out, they're all of a sudden "socialists"

 

[General Lee]

I don't have a problem with the Bankruptcy process.

I have a problem with multi-million dollar payouts to the corporate executives who ran their companies into the ground and MULTIPLE trips through bankruptcy.

3 strikes you're out sounds pretty fair to me. Corporations should be required to run profitably or be forced out of the business. The country was NOT designed to use bankruptcy as a strategy to compete.

The process does suck, and management often gets an "atta boy" for a "successful re-emergence" and the BK lawyers get rich. I think there is a limit to how many times a company can go BK, and only a couple airlines I can think of have gone BK more than once, CAL and AWA? Being through the process once already, I really didn't enjoy it, and I hope the rest of you never have to either.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Lear70]

The process does suck, and management often gets an "atta boy" for a "successful re-emergence" and the BK lawyers get rich. I think there is a limit to how many times a company can go BK, and only a couple airlines I can think of have gone BK more than once, CAL and AWA? Being through the process once already, I really didn't enjoy it, and I hope the rest of you never have to either.


Bye Bye---General Lee

More airlines than that.

Either way, yes, it sucks, and yes, I've been through it, except my company just closed the doors and shut down while pilots were still out on the road in the hotel wondering why Scheduling and Dispatch weren't answering the phones...

That said, I *KNOW* that many companies used it as a tool post 9/11, a rather effective one, and it's going to take our entire career lifetimes just to get back to where we were in the 80's when corrected for inflation.

 

[scoreboardII]

spoken like someone who has never experienced a hardship.... yep, I've got mine, get yer own!

probably a "Christian" too, right?

If you experienced personal bankruptcy, you would be subject to extreme limits on what you could do. Not so for corporations, just the opposite in fact.

You as an individual in bankruptcy cannot go back into debt buying another house you can't afford, yet as noted, thats exactly what happens to corporations or more importantly the people who want their money, the prime creditors. Look no further than GE capitial as the prime reason airlines keep coming back, GE wants their engines turning and burning at all costs down to zero profit.

Maybe you didn't read my signature:

 

[scoreboardII]

More airlines than that.


and it's going to take our entire career lifetimes just to get back to where we were in the 80's when corrected for inflation.

My take is the glory days of a days pay for a days work are over. Look how far the legacies have fallen: to that of lowly SWA payscales, a payscale that dollar for dollar is within 1% of what SWA pilots made back in 1970's.

Think about that, every major airline pilot has the ability today to make what a SWA pilot did in 1975. Thats a pretty low bar in my opinion, one that based on world economies will never be raised. Try and raise it and the companies will outsource to a foreign provider. The customers will demand as much or more accurately, as little, that or they drive.