Is Skywest losing ground in Salt Lake City?

[EMBpilot]

I think Delta is trying to move the regionals around so they don't get too comfortable and think they "own" the place. It started after the failed Comair strike in CVG, which shut down that hub for a couple months and cost DL $1 billion. Remember, they are just feed, and if they aren't doing a great job can be replaced after their contracts are up. Seamless travel, no doubt!


Bye Bye--General Lee

I second the General's post and I don't understand all this smear campaign. Don't you people have something better to do than lower yourself so much?
Skirts, toilet door signs .... my goodness!!
General wrote the truth and even said "I think" in the beginning of his post.

You guys need to understand - regionals suck, not you. When pilots say that regionals destroy the industry - it is because they do, not because YOU do.


Don't take it personally and get ready for next step for your career.
All there is to it.

 

[flap operator]

Oh ok... so who ALLOWED regional airlines to become what they are? Hint: It wasn't the regional airline or the pilots that work for them. If we're such a problem... TAKE IT BACK. ALL OF IT. I won't hold my breath though.

I do agree though... the insults and immature name calling is getting pretty old. From both sides.

 

[buscap]

I second the General's post and I don't understand all this smear campaign. Don't you people have something better to do than lower yourself so much?
Skirts, toilet door signs .... my goodness!!
General wrote the truth and even said "I think" in the beginning of his post.

You guys need to understand - regionals suck, not you. When pilots say that regionals destroy the industry - it is because they do, not because YOU do.


Don't take it personally and get ready for next step for your career.
All there is to it.

Who are you calling a 'name caller'?

I hope the bathroom door with the wrong sign doesn't hit you in the butt on the way out, after you've pulled your skirt up!!

And she (the general) started it!!!

 

[buscap]

Dear Professor Frankenstien,
(EMBPilot)


And another thing; I too grow tired of sparring with the pea brained idiot, my original 'name calling' was merely a reaction to his regional trolling.

He's like a rich guy driving thru the ghetto, waving his W-2. Leave us to our whining regional pilot misery, but stop stirring up the pot.

And while stirring the pot may be fun, please don't be amazed or whiny when told to please leave.

I posted on the majors board just once. The purpose was to find out how many folks were trolling the regional board.


Sincerely Yours,

Frankenstien's Monster

 

[johnsonrod]

Dear Professor Frankenstien,
(EMBPilot)


And another thing; I too grow tired of sparring with the pea brained idiot, my original 'name calling' was merely a reaction to his regional trolling.

He's like a rich guy driving thru the ghetto, waving his W-2. Leave us to our whining regional pilot misery, but stop stirring up the pot.

And while stirring the pot may be fun, please don't be amazed or whiny when told to please leave.

I posted on the majors board just once. The purpose was to find out how many folks were trolling the regional board.


Sincerely Yours,

Frankenstien's Monster

Don't you want to improve your lot in life? General Lee is right, more RJs means less mainline jobs, and the continuation of less pay and worse benefits. You try to find humor in this, but you are making yourself look bad, and your jokes aren't funny. Keep sticking it out here in the minor leagues, I am aiming for higher eventually.

 

[79%N1]

Whether Gen is right or not, it is how he goes about antagonizing Regional Pilots that is wrong. It is not his job to poke RJ pilots with a stick, and belittle them with his rhetoric. OK, his plane is cooler, his overnights are better, blah blah blah. We get it. But, he blames RJ pilots for the RJ mess. He talks down to RJ pilots and that is why his message gets lost. We're listening if there is a secret way to reduce RJ's and add mainline jets. We're just tired of a Mainline pilot trolling the Regional board to antagonize us so he can feel better about himself.....because I assure you he is a sad, pathetic dude that I am certain has been picked on and/or beat up his whole life, so now it is his turn to pick on others.

That said, yeah, we agree that there should be more mainline jobs. But, we are POWERLESS to do anything. That is up to you mainline guys. (And don't tell me we should not have taken jobs at the regionals, or we would never be called when the major jobs open up)

 

[johnsonrod]

Whether Gen is right or not, it is how he goes about antagonizing Regional Pilots that is wrong. It is not his job to poke RJ pilots with a stick, and belittle them with his rhetoric. OK, his plane is cooler, his overnights are better, blah blah blah. We get it. But, he blames RJ pilots for the RJ mess. He talks down to RJ pilots and that is why his message gets lost. We're listening if there is a secret way to reduce RJ's and add mainline jets. We're just tired of a Mainline pilot trolling the Regional board to antagonize us so he can feel better about himself.....because I assure you he is a sad, pathetic dude that I am certain has been picked on and/or beat up his whole life, so now it is his turn to pick on others.

That said, yeah, we agree that there should be more mainline jobs. But, we are POWERLESS to do anything. That is up to you mainline guys. (And don't tell me we should not have taken jobs at the regionals, or we would never be called when the major jobs open up)

I have read some of your responses to him and I think in reality you are the one who has the problem. "Woe is me" is your common theme. Get a grip man. It's like you are saying "Don't be mean to us, you evil mainline pilot." He seems to be right mostly, that our willingness to take lower paying jobs regardless of what it does to the overall industry is a main problem. We don't assign where RJs go, but the outpouring of wannabe airline pilots from places like Embry Riddle and UND show there is no shortage of applicants. I know one thing, I am ready to move on to something better in this industry.

 

[79%N1]

Good luck and enjoy!

PS. I'm not going to debate you, but woe is certainly not me. I enjoy what I do, and if some dude wants to belittle me for that, so be it! If I want to defend against his assertions, I have the right to do so. Sorry, but GL does faaar more trolling here than simply giving his opinion. He aims to antagonize and belittle others, and you know it.

 

[JumpersAway]

I have read some of your responses to him and I think in reality you are the one who has the problem. "Woe is me" is your common theme. Get a grip man. It's like you are saying "Don't be mean to us, you evil mainline pilot." He seems to be right mostly, that our willingness to take lower paying jobs regardless of what it does to the overall industry is a main problem. We don't assign where RJs go, but the outpouring of wannabe airline pilots from places like Embry Riddle and UND show there is no shortage of applicants. I know one thing, I am ready to move on to something better in this industry.

You may be willing to move on to bigger and better things, as are most of us. However, don't you think you ought to take some pride in what you do? You do the exact same job as those "mainline" pilots do. Just because many like yourself are willing to allow someone to wave their finger in your face doesn't mean we all will. In my opinion, putting up with it sets apart the amateurs from the professionals who commit their time to honing their craft.

Those pilot mills you speak of like UND and ERAU produce nothing different than what you have become- a regional guy looking to move up the ladder.

Just because you are looking to move on, doesn't set you apart from the rest of us- you are still a regional guy.

 

[GRAAB HIRBOUBI]

The guy who started this thread was wondering about Mesaba growing in SLC. It looks like they are expanding, and that should make you nervous. DL can put you guys where ever they want, and that can make life interesting. But, DL is doing it for a reason.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Being a Mesaba person it doesn't particularly feel like we are expanding.

The 900 flying is being bounced around from month to month so much that no one can get a feel for it. And with the SAAB's leaving, I am expecting a downgrade by the end of the year. I am not a new hire, low time Captain.

Being from the NWA side of things, no one at Mesaba find it surprising with the constant changes. That was the normal. I think it's funny when people from ASA and Skywest talk about Mesaba "stealing" your flying. We go where were told. Personally, you can have Atlanta. I never liked going there anyway. Salt Lake is really nice though.

Heck - I wouldn't be surprised if Delta took our 900's away. Who knows General maybe you know something I don't. Expanding would be great. I just haven't been feeling the love.

 

[General Lee]

Being a Mesaba person it doesn't particularly feel like we are expanding.

The 900 flying is being bounced around from month to month so much that no one can get a feel for it. And with the SAAB's leaving, I am expecting a downgrade by the end of the year. I am not a new hire, low time Captain.

Being from the NWA side of things, no one at Mesaba find it surprising with the constant changes. That was the normal. I think it's funny when people from ASA and Skywest talk about Mesaba "stealing" your flying. We go where were told. Personally, you can have Atlanta. I never liked going there anyway. Salt Lake is really nice though.

Heck - I wouldn't be surprised if Delta took our 900's away. Who knows General maybe you know something I don't. Expanding would be great. I just haven't been feeling the love.

Well, I don't know about you guys expanding, but EVENTUALLY we will be hiring due to all of the Delta-N pilots retiring. I think this year is a wash, but maybe at the end of the year we may see some movement, and if that happens some of your pilots and CPZ guys will probably move over, meaning you will move up and hopefully keep your seat, until you come on over. Good luck to you.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[GRAAB HIRBOUBI]

I really appreciate that General.

I think at 46 I am probably going to finish my career at Mesaba. I like the idea that people will go to Delta, but even if I wanted to go it's years before my number would come up (only 9 a month) so I will just be happy if I can keep my base.

 

[79%N1]

The kinder and gentler General. Who knew

 

[makersmarc]

I'm curious because I wasn't flying professionally then...what exactly about Comair's 2001 strike and the (then) industry-leading contract that resulted from it makes it a "failed" strike?

It was a failed strike because the pilots got no concessions from management, and because pilots crossed the picket line in droves. Later, ALPA was decertified at Comair.

Sounds like someone's fantasy, doesn't it?

 

[buscap]

Well, I don't know about you guys expanding, but EVENTUALLY we will be hiring due to all of the Delta-N pilots retiring. I think this year is a wash, but maybe at the end of the year we may see some movement, and if that happens some of your pilots and CPZ guys will probably move over, meaning you will move up and hopefully keep your seat, until you come on over. Good luck to you.


Bye Bye--General Lee

General,

You really shouldn't loan out your Flightinfo password.

Now get out of here and post on the mainline board!!!

 

[General Lee]

I really appreciate that General.

I think at 46 I am probably going to finish my career at Mesaba. I like the idea that people will go to Delta, but even if I wanted to go it's years before my number would come up (only 9 a month) so I will just be happy if I can keep my base.

There were guys in my class in 96 that were over 40 years old. If you want to give it a try, I would say do it, it is never too late to start something that could better your life. Sure, a year or two reserve wouldn't be the best, but after that you could notice how much better you would be treated, and maybe see some more of the world on DL's dime. It's up to you, but if you see a DL jumpseater on your plane often, try to get his card and get get him to write a recommendation for you. When the hiring comes, I don't think there is a limit on "only 9 a month" going total, rather 9 a month automatically going over. It's up to you, but you never know. Regardless, again, good luck to you.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[BOX OFFICE]

Try to get the coveted "General Lee" recommendation. It's a dead ringer for getting hired... to dump lavs.

 

[General Lee]

Try to get the coveted "General Lee" recommendation. It's a dead ringer for getting hired... to dump lavs.

Look, again, I don't care if you like women, that's fine. It doesn't change my opinion about you, that you gargle with feminine dou--che.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[flap operator]

General -

Leaving Mesaba for DL (or anyone else) with decent seniority is a lot more than just getting treated better. Many folks can't justify the paycut. Going from a 10-15+ year CA at Mesaba, to a new hire at Delta is a pretty healthy paycut. How long would it take to recoup that paycut? It might only take a few years to match the pay rate... but what about all the lost income? How long would it take to recoup the 401k benefit cut? For a guy who is 46-50, there may not be enough time to make that happen. The longer we're at Mesaba (by choice or by industry circumstances) the harder it is to move on. For some, the grass ISN'T always greener.

 

[General Lee]

General -

Leaving Mesaba for DL (or anyone else) with decent seniority is a lot more than just getting treated better. Many folks can't justify the paycut. Going from a 10-15+ year CA at Mesaba, to a new hire at Delta is a pretty healthy paycut. How long would it take to recoup that paycut? It might only take a few years to match the pay rate... but what about all the lost income? How long would it take to recoup the 401k benefit cut? For a guy who is 46-50, there may not be enough time to make that happen. The longer we're at Mesaba (by choice or by industry circumstances) the harder it is to move on. For some, the grass ISN'T always greener.

Well, right now the lowest pay at DL is around $50 an hour the first year, and then probably $70-75 the next year, with about $100 an hour the next. (depending if you want to move up fleet types). You also get better 401K deals, a DC fund with 13-15% matching (so, whatever you make for that month the company has to match it 13-15% and put it into the investment fund---if you make 10,000 in a month---the company has to put $1300 into your fund, etc). The company pays for your life insurance ($500K for you), pays for your medicals, etc. When it comes down to it, you are treated better, have better hotels, more money, and a chance to see something other than smaller towns or 5-6 legs a day. If someone HAS TO keep a job because they can't spare ONE or TWO years of less pay (not bone cheap pay---$50 an hour aint that bad---I started at $30 an hour back in '96), then that is just bad planning or nonexistant planning. Whatever, to each his own, but a year or two of "struggles" could mean a lot more of comfort. Getting on at the beginning of a hiring wave is also important.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[BOX OFFICE]

This message is hidden because General Lee is on your ignore list.

I'm sorry General, I missed that, but I'm sure it was your usual idiotic, juvenile comeback. I don't know how some Delta pilots made it past the psych eval. But I do know, that there are some you DEFINITELY don't want to be taking advice from, based on their demonstrated maturity level, and inner need to say and do anything to be noticed. You know, the ones who make sure everyone knows they entered the crew room. Who talk just loud enough to make sure everyone notices them. The ones who bully people below them to make themselves feel big. Who troll regional boards and make fun of regional pilots for flying regional jets, while holed up in a hotel in some major world city.

Maybe their mothers didn't pay enough attention to them. Maybe they were molested as children. Who knows. But not the people you take seriously.

 

[Heavy Set]

Look, again, I don't care if you like women, that's fine. It doesn't change my opinion about you, that you gargle with feminine dou--che.


Bye Bye--General Lee

General,

That really was a good response to Box Office. She does seem "confused."

 

[johnsonrod]

Talk about thread creep... How does this all relate to Skywest in SLC?

How about we get back to the topic at hand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[GRAAB HIRBOUBI]

General

Now guys I have been watching this thread develope into a bash the General. Well there are times that I do get angry with him but it's quite obvious that he is poking you back for the reaction. I choose to ignore those posts.

I will say this, the General has always answered my direct questions in what I think are honest, sensible, non attacking ways. General, I really value that, thanks.

The current problems with the RJ's isn't ours because we have the job. It goes back farther than the General. But what seems to be the problem is that just like this issue came up from the senior mainline pilots the correction will need to come from the same place.

How...
I am not trying to start a fight, I only give a possible solution.
First, As part of the mainline pilot contract (I just don't see anyother way) is that it must include payscales to include everything from the Boeing Battlestar Galactica to Piper Cub. Then no matter who does the flying (mainline, contractor, or wholly owned) all the pilots in that equipment get paid that rate.

Now there are many problems with this. But heres the benefit. Quality of service becomes the determining factor, not cost. Make the contractor buy the aircraft, I don't care. Ultimately, if quality becomes the determining factor everybody wins.

Now the cream at the top of the seniority list will have to be scraped off to feed the bottom end of the equipment list, but thats the only way I see that the flying will go back to mainline.

Of course, it's easier to blame me for flying at the regional and maybe I am the problem but I think Mesaba is pretty lucky to have me with over 9000 hours and 30+ years of related aviation experiences.

Now back to the subject...
I don't fly the 900 but I have many friends who do. I have heard the stories of push backs and arrivals to gates being deliberately blocked, rude behavior in the terminal, and the finger being displayed to our crews. Now I don't want anybody to lose their jobs but eventually that BS is going to catch up with you. And maybe things aren't as good in SLC as you think...

Gate Service at DTW and MSP are awful for all of us. In fact twice recently I dropped the door and sent the FO in to find a gate agent in DTW. This is intollerable and I made/make a lot of calls. Nobody at Mesaba (pilots at least) are unaware of the gate service. I really hope this improves for all of us.

 

[XJPilot547]

I'm a 900 Captain who goes to SLC just about every trip. I've never had anyone from Skywest or otherwise ever give me any trouble at all. In fact, the majority that I've met in the terminal and hotels, have been very nice. Delta even allows us to use their crewroom, although it's usually a ghost town in there. I enjoy flying through SLC. Even the gate agents are a breath of fresh air and the ground staff actually cares.

 

[buscap]

I'm a 900 Captain who goes to SLC just about every trip. I've never had anyone from Skywest or otherwise ever give me any trouble at all. In fact, the majority that I've met in the terminal and hotels, have been very nice. Delta even allows us to use their crewroom, although it's usually a ghost town in there. I enjoy flying through SLC. Even the gate agents are a breath of fresh air and the ground staff actually cares.

demographics...google it

 

[GRAAB HIRBOUBI]

I'm a 900 Captain who goes to SLC just about every trip. I've never had anyone from Skywest or otherwise ever give me any trouble at all. In fact, the majority that I've met in the terminal and hotels, have been very nice. Delta even allows us to use their crewroom, although it's usually a ghost town in there. I enjoy flying through SLC. Even the gate agents are a breath of fresh air and the ground staff actually cares.

I am glad I am wrong on the BS. It just seems to me that with all of our companies trying to bend us over a table in one form or another, you'd think the pilots could at least treat each other decently.

 

[XJPilot547]

demographics...google it

Oh really is that what that is. Thanks for the tip.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

General -

Leaving Mesaba for DL (or anyone else) with decent seniority is a lot more than just getting treated better. Many folks can't justify the paycut. Going from a 10-15+ year CA at Mesaba, to a new hire at Delta is a pretty healthy paycut. How long would it take to recoup that paycut? It might only take a few years to match the pay rate... but what about all the lost income? How long would it take to recoup the 401k benefit cut? For a guy who is 46-50, there may not be enough time to make that happen. The longer we're at Mesaba (by choice or by industry circumstances) the harder it is to move on. For some, the grass ISN'T always greener.

Unfortuantely for many of us at Mesaba, staying here is a paycut too. I would MUCH rather be going from 900 CA pay to Delta 1year FO pay than the 5 year Mesaba FO pay I will be seeing in a few months. (with no likely reupgrade for years to come)

 

[JumpersAway]

The bottom line, no matter what the angle, is that there is simply no stability or long term future flying an airframe that is owned by one company with another company's paint on it. As much as people detest J.B. for his views, they're pretty much spot on in terms of brand scope, etc. Even if every regional out there raised the bar simultaneously in order to give mainline the footing they need for a substantial pay raise, some schmo will simply start a whole new regional to undercut and provide the service the mainline managements desire- cheap labor and fixed cost.