Is Mesaba the next Newco?

[needsumluv]

How can ALPA stop anything from happening that the company wants to do that is legal?

We have "walked" before; how many times have you "walked"?

You can't just "walk" because your pissed. Remember Americans' union that got fined?

They are going to mess with all the red tails they can...
It is in the lawyers hands now...

Dave B

There are ways to stop this...we just need to think out of the box....The red tail unionS could band togther and set a average wage that we will all agree to work at..seeing as we are all in negotiations at the same time. Basically we need some form of brand scoping. Except to do this the senior guys would have to give up more pay and benefits and we would have to agree to sizable cuts for Mgmt to agree to a solution that will give us more power in the future.

 

[noonan]

You guys are like a bunch of old women.
Ever see Steel Magnolia's? You guys are them. Who wants to be Weezer?
Go pop your zits and comb the hair on your Barbie doll.
You have no control over this situation.
Shut up and numb the pain.

You seem to know a little too much about this chick flick, Nancy.

 

[screwed_again]

I've heard through the grapevine that XJ will have 70 - 70seaters, 50 - 50seaters and the 49 Saabs when this is all done. Anyone else heard this?

 

[ClippedWings]

I heard the same rumor but it was 70 70 seater crj, 70 50 seater crj, and 49 saabs.

 

[captpetefam]

Fermented Grapes

I've heard through the grapevine that XJ will have 70 - 70seaters, 50 - 50seaters and the 49 Saabs when this is all done. Anyone else heard this?

I think whatever grapevine you've been listening/drinking from has been ripening for a very long time. "These grapes taste funny!... they make my cheeks warm."

I sure would love to believe you and I DO hope it's true but I don't think anyone can say such things with confidence right now. Nice try.

Cya,

CP
Believing in a Higher Power than Steenlund, Foley, Spandex or something with spaghetti.

 

[ClippedWings]

You're right they do kind of taste funny but don't be surprised about anything in this industry.

 

[xjavro85]

I heard the same rumor but it was 70 70 seater crj, 70 50 seater crj, and 49 saabs.

If its true great, but who really cares if we have to fly them for substandard wages.

 

[Tank Commander]

You do. It's called employment. Until you have the PIC time to make the big move over to the bottom of someone else's seniority list like SWA or some other airline that pays half-ass decent wage. Thats the way the game is played. If we don't like it, we can take our balls and go home. Their are hundreds, thousands that are waiting to play. Unfortunately

 

[TinGoose1]

Tank Commander,

Nice defeatest attitude. I'll fly for free because if I don't someone else will. Your type makes me sick. It will stop when people grow a pair and say they won't do it anymore. If your pilot group says no, I highly doubt that the company will be able to hire all of those CFI's and train them in time to matter. Only you have the last word on what you do at your company. Don't let the people behind you influence the decision in front of you. Until pilots step up and take a stand your attitude, and those that share it, will continue to kill this industry.

Oh ya, unless your living some place a little brighter than I am there is no other places to go after you build your time. Unless you haven't read the paper lately, the MAJORS AREN'T HIRING! Bottom line is our industry will continue to be destroyed until we outlaw stupidity.

 

[Tank Commander]

TinGoose1,
Well, give me the answer. Not the one you gave, BECAUSE ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!

 

[Tank Commander]

So, we all stand up say no as a pilot group. Company goes under. Where do you go? The bottom of the seniority list of some other crap paying regional. Oh, I suppose you think that the company will give in. Get out of your dream world. Regionals are a dime a dozen. I've war gamed it. it not pretty. You need to figure out were you are going and the fastest way to get there. Other then for safety, labor unions are hosed right now. Economics, the Enron cooperate mentality, out sourcing. You need to come up with something better then "Until pilots step up and take a stand". You are giving me a slogan. I and every body else are tired of slogans. I don't have it yet either, but I'm sure it will involve math ,a lot of numbers and time.
Yes, I read the paper, and it has an obituary section. Which tells me people are still dieing everyday. Retiring everyday. Everybody is still hiring. You my have to start doing some net working, but they are hiring.

 

[fly4ever]

TinGoose1

Small correction - Continental IS hiring - 16 a week for the next year is the latest info. Last I heard, CAL is still a major. I know, we're only talking one major but at least one of the big guys is hiring.

 

[Tank Commander]

I don't have the answer. But here's some good advice I was given. "Do not let the industry manage your career. Manage your own career!" The industry will screw you if you are not planning ahead.

 

[TinGoose1]

Tank,

The industry won't screw you, your attitude will. Your solution is to be the lowest cost pilot so that you can apply at CAL? Ya, I can just see it now. With your plan, every regional pilot would sell himself out so that he can line up with 10,000 other regional pilots for one of fifteen CAL positions. You said that my comments were a slogan. Do you know the difference between a slogan and a Credo? One is a sales pitch, and the other you live by. That is the only thing that seperates the two. You write like your former military. Duty, Honor, Country: Is this a slogan or a creed? I don't expect anything less than hostility from my management, that's their job. What isn't expected is when pilots say they will fly for nothing because a CFI would. Your industry isn't killing you, you are killing the industry. I'm confident that the industry will get better only when one of two things happens: either we outlaw stupidity, or figure out how to grow pilots like you a spine.

Semper Fi-

 

[screwed_again]

Hey, I'm not trying anything. It came down from someone in "the know." There has to be someone else on here that has heard that rumor...

 

[screwed_again]

Tank,

I'm confident that the industry will get better only when one of two things happens: either we outlaw stupidity, or figure out how to grow pilots like you a spine.

Semper Fi-

TinGoose,

Quit yapping and tell us the solution! And not, "we all must stick together, blah, blah blah!" Explain how this is legally done....???? I'm soooo sick of this BS rhetoric. Do you think we are the only industry in the last 20 years to get outsourced,watered down to low wages. Ask the steel workers, iron ore miners in MN or the railroad workers. Are you telling me all these people were "spineless and stupid?"

Get off you soap box, TinGoose; and fly your airplane (soon for less money).

 

[fly4ever]

TinGoose1,

First year pay at CAL is $29.97 an hour - does that mean everyone going to CAL is a sellout to the industry because they have rates to fly everything from a 777 to a 737 that are below industry standards? Health insurance isn't available until you have 6 months in unless you pay the COBRA. I could go on but the contract is public. Of course, people like you want to blame this all on pilot groups at regionals. Let's look at a little history -

The Delta pilot group was the first "major" pilot group to allow regional jet flying to happen within their network. They didn't perceive RJs as a threat to them. Who's to blame here? The company took advantage of this attitude and others have followed - welcome to a free-market society.

History lesson over.

What should happen, but probably never will, is that the representatives of every pilot group of every U.S. airline should hold a conference to form a cohesive group without individual group agendas. Yea, I'm dreaming - but until something like this happens you will never again see ALPA or any other pilot union in the airline industry have the power that it once had. Whether you are at a "major", "national", or a "regional" we are all fighting to keep our jobs and contrary to popular union opinion we are "replaceable". Remember, if you belong to an ALPA carrier and have a contract it has Duane Worth's signature on it. I guess that would make him the top "sell-out" by your standards (by the way - he is or was a captain at a "major"). Don't misunderstand me, I support my union and my representatives. I want what is in the best interest of my family, my pilot group and all other pilot groups out there. Until we are unified with a common agenda we are forced to fend for ourselves - ALPA national has apparently not reached that conclusion. Uncoordinated attempts at negotiating individual group contracts will continue at all levels starting at the top and everyone will continue to suffer with the economic ups and downs of the industry.

Fly,

p.s. Unions exist because of greedy management and may become extinct because of greed as well. Greed on both sides. There is plenty of blame to go around.

 

[OpenSkies]

Tank Commander,

Nice defeatest attitude. I'll fly for free because if I don't someone else will. Your type makes me sick. It will stop when people grow a pair and say they won't do it anymore. If your pilot group says no, I highly doubt that the company will be able to hire all of those CFI's and train them in time to matter. Only you have the last word on what you do at your company. Don't let the people behind you influence the decision in front of you. Until pilots step up and take a stand your attitude, and those that share it, will continue to kill this industry.

Oh ya, unless your living some place a little brighter than I am there is no other places to go after you build your time. Unless you haven't read the paper lately, the MAJORS AREN'T HIRING! Bottom line is our industry will continue to be destroyed until we outlaw stupidity.

But cetain Global Airlines are! Any both are synonymous with a color.

 

[BOHICAgain]

I don't have the answer. But here's some good advice I was given. "Do not let the industry manage your career. Manage your own career!" The industry will screw you if you are not planning ahead.

so is it ok to work under horrible work rules almost no pay so we MIGHT have a chance to work for a legacy at some point in our lifes.. If managment see that we bent over flying 50 and 70 seaters at horrible pay what is the mind set going to be later flying 130 seaters or for that matter anything within the US at this point at C-scale pay.

The industry in a way does manage your career. Look at the mid to late 90's. To get hired w/ a regional TTwas around 1500 and like 500 multi.. Look at it now 600 and 100 and sometimes even lower than that. Yeah its true to have to plan ahead but at what cost. Yeah sacrafice and take the risk and you might be rewarded..but if not then your stuck at a regional for life because and that is exactly what they want.."hey if you guys take a pay cut for the 70 seaters whe will get 90 seaters" and so on and so on

 

[Tank Commander]

Like I said I don't have the answer. From what I have observed over the last couple of years is this. We always talk about the 10 year cycle of the industry. Bad times always seem to fall every 10 years. 9-11 was unforeseen and caused a a great ripple in the industry. Now we are settling in to the 10 year low. The low will be longer and deeper then in the past. 9-11 helped that. The flooded RJ market, braking of labor groups by management, all products of the low. They are not what have caused the low. Their will be sunny skys a head. For the ext couple of years pilot groups need to concentrate of contract content, work rules, scope to cover your a$$ from other regionals taking your job. Not salary. Try not to suck down concession if possible. When the sunny skies return those will be the things to have. When the airlines start making more money then they can hide, then we can make our demands.

The industry won't screw you, your attitude will.

After a long career in the military, I'm doing just fine. 6 in the corp 14 in the armored cav. I did not grow up around money, never had a lot of money. when I was hired I knew what the pay scale was. when I up grade next year I will be doing pretty well at the regional level. I do not live above my means. I have a 12 and 13 year old. 1 car,a 110,000 house, and a wife that works hard. and a job that I enjoy very much.
TinGoose1, You don't want to measure military pe-pe's with me.
Soldiers fight wars for businessmen, you are now in the businessman's world. Learn his battlefield, or he's going to eat your lunch!