Is CMR transferring flying to ASA?

[HelloNewman]

I will answer his question for you. Enjoy flying for food stamps for the rest of your life and living in an apartment with 5 other people while you Captain the 'heavy 70 iron'.

Oh, and one day perhaps by default or because some other carrier is cutting the legs out from under you, you too can see your company shrink into irrelevance and fly 3hr pay credit days with long layovers where you don't have the money to buy yourself dinner.

Instead of hurrying up and coming up with some sort of smart-ass response try thinking about things.

Anyone who makes captain wages and needs an apartment with food stamps and 5 room mates really needs to see a financial advisor.

 

[doh]

Anyone who makes captain wages and needs an apartment with food stamps and 5 room mates really needs to see a financial advisor.

I believe he is reffering to what will happen if tools like you keep swigging the Koolaid. It doesn't surprise me that you didn't understand him though.:uzi:

 

[HelloNewman]

I believe he is reffering to what will happen if tools like you keep swigging the Koolaid. It doesn't surprise me that you didn't understand him though.:uzi:

Last time I checked captains have not taken a paycut at SkyWest. Last time I checked making $70,000+ per year while not the most luxurious lifestyle is definately livable. That example given was simply false. It would take years for inflation to go up that far before you needed food stamps. It was simply another misinformed statement about SkyWest. Perhaps that could happen in 20 years. In 20 years this will be a different industry and we will be making more money. They are having a hard time filling classes at most places. Wages will have to go up eventually as supply falls. Basically the person was trying to make things seem worse than they really are. I suggest he see a financial advisor immediately to see how expenses work.

 

[WWEfan]

atlcrashpad cracks me up. He may not be an english major, but he's usually right on the money......booouuuyyyyy!!!!!

 

[172driver]

Look what you started, Caveman...

 

[outtahere]

Last time I checked captains have not taken a paycut at SkyWest. Last time I checked making $70,000+ per year while not the most luxurious lifestyle is definately livable. That example given was simply false. It would take years for inflation to go up that far before you needed food stamps. It was simply another misinformed statement about SkyWest. Perhaps that could happen in 20 years. In 20 years this will be a different industry and we will be making more money. They are having a hard time filling classes at most places. Wages will have to go up eventually as supply falls. Basically the person was trying to make things seem worse than they really are. I suggest he see a financial advisor immediately to see how expenses work.

So lets put this theory to the test shall we. ASA's current contract was negotiated in 1998, nine years ago for the mathmatically challenged. At the average of 3.0% inflation per year, that is a 27% increase in the cost of living. Now because of airlines such as yourself, and Mesa, ASA mgmt. is wanting to give us a 2% raise on the 200, and nothing on the 700 at DOS. So, at that rate and figuring a min of three years on top of a five year contract how long will it take us at ASA to make slightly above min wage? I'm guessing just one more contract. So shut your pie hole, grow a pair, sign in ALPA and negotiate a real contract. Pu$$y!!!

 

[~~~^~~~]

Last time I checked captains have not taken a paycut at SkyWest. Last time I checked making $70,000+ per year while not the most luxurious lifestyle is definately livable.

....In 20 years this will be a different industry and we will be making more money. They are having a hard time filling classes at most places. Wages will have to go up eventually as supply falls.

I suggest he see a financial advisor immediately to see how expenses work.

You putz - $70,000 a year is less than $50,000 a year when Bush took office. Can you eat, sure. Can you purchase a home and stick away a little for the retirement? Heck no!

Should a Captain, flying jets international be able to afford a median priced home?

Wages might go up for new hires, who are now paid the equavlent of $10,000 a year when I started this business. But on the top end we earn what we negotiate.

I suggest you go see a financial advisor and learn why the US Dollar is losing ground to the Philippine Peso. Maybe your savings from your previous career, or your trust fund have distorted your perspective - but in the age of alter ego replacement pilots Captains can no longer afford to have homes.

Frank Lorenzo shocked the World when he made the statement that Flight Attendants might not need to get paid enough to afford their own homes. These days we have given up on Flight Attendants and First Officers; owning a home is now becoming questionable for Captains.

Marrying well, a trust fund, or a good side job have become requirements of our "Profession." What a shame. But hey, if Flamebait was a virtue, you would be a God.

 

[HelloNewman]

So lets put this theory to the test shall we. ASA's current contract was negotiated in 1998, nine years ago for the mathmatically challenged. At the average of 3.0% inflation per year, that is a 27% increase in the cost of living. Now because of airlines such as yourself, and Mesa, ASA mgmt. is wanting to give us a 2% raise on the 200, and nothing on the 700 at DOS. So, at that rate and figuring a min of three years on top of a five year contract how long will it take us at ASA to make slightly above min wage? I'm guessing just one more contract. So shut your pie hole, grow a pair, sign in ALPA and negotiate a real contract. Pu$$y!!!

No thanks on ALPA but feel free to get the best deal you can. Trust me everyone is rooting for you guys. We just aren't sure if the market can bear it quite yet. Sooner or later the applicant pool will dry up and there will be no choice but to give everyone a raise. The number of student pilot/private pilot certificates has gone down dramatically. Eventually supply and demand will be in our favor. Have patience and all can be rewarded without needing a union. In the end I believe reason will win at SkyWest and we can put yet another drive behind us. I am sure ALPA is already gearing up for another union drive if this one fails. The union drive talk never seems to end here unfortunately. There are much more important things to talk about than a union like when is the next tee time.

 

[Leroy Smith]

.... Trust me everyone is rooting for you guys. We just aren't sure if the market can bear it quite yet. ....

And yet there are SKYW folks on this board crowing about their W2's. They are not flying more hours than us, they just get paid better. How does the market bear that?

 

[airtime42]

No thanks on ALPA but feel free to get the best deal you can. Trust me everyone is rooting for you guys. We just aren't sure if the market can bear it quite yet. Sooner or later the applicant pool will dry up and there will be no choice but to give everyone a raise. The number of student pilot/private pilot certificates has gone down dramatically. Eventually supply and demand will be in our favor. Have patience and all can be rewarded without needing a union. In the end I believe reason will win at SkyWest and we can put yet another drive behind us. I am sure ALPA is already gearing up for another union drive if this one fails. The union drive talk never seems to end here unfortunately. There are much more important things to talk about than a union like when is the next tee time.

This guy is the biggest idiot that has ever posted here. Yeah right supply and demand. You are so Full of $hitt. With scumb bag groups like skywest the wages will never go up they will just continue to fall. Because sooner or later skywest guys will fly for free. But that is ok because daddys trust fund will support their famlies and allow them to do what they love. I hate skywest

 

[CFIT]

And yet there are SKYW folks on this board crowing about their W2's. They are not flying more hours than us, they just get paid better. How does the market bear that?

Wait a minute aren't you the guys that keep saying we are "whoring" out the industry with substandard wages?

 

[wanagethi]

Explain to me how one alpa carrier can underbid and fly another alpa carrier's planes, isn't this one of the things a union is supposed to stop. All you heard asa pilots saying is how comair guys screwed you on their pay freeze, news to asa: comair payrates are still higher than yours and now you are putting it to comair. How can any union justify this? Please tell me.

 

[Long Time Gone]

Explain this to me......

Why do the CMR CR7s have a Hobbs Meter in them????

 

[standaman]

Explain this to me......

Why do the CMR CR7s have a Hobbs Meter in them????

Why not and why does it matter???

 

[SBD]

Why didn't I try to become an air traffic controller? Gov't job, pension, job security, no underbidding.

 

[DrewBlows]

Explain this to me......

Why do the CMR CR7s have a Hobbs Meter in them????

It's a maintence thing. Hobbs time goes in the logbook after each flight. I don't know what they use it for.

The Captain generally fills out the logbook, but for some reason the Hobbs Meter is on the right side. Apparently the accepted procedure is to put the last two numbers in the FMS scratch pad (ie "1.2" if the Hobbs says 3211.2). I generally put the last three numbers, for no reason in particular. We once discovered a logbook, in which the numbers had been off by a significant amount ("32111.2" instead of "3211.2"), for about a week due to the fact that only the last two numbers had been transfered. I suspect this happens on a fairly routine basis, and would be totally avoidable if the Hobbs was installed on the left side of the aircraft. But I'm no engineer.

 

[Leroy Smith]

Wait a minute aren't you the guys that keep saying we are "whoring" out the industry with substandard wages?

Maybe some do. I think they are misinformed and misdirected by the company and their BS that they have been putting out. I am concerned with the fact that our parent company seems to apply a double standard when considering "being competitive". Unlike Newman, I like having a Union looking out for me (despite its shortcomings) and I think the 2% is a good investment.

 

[HelloNewman]

Tell ya what this job is too easy to even be debating the financial thing. Comparing us to doctors and lawyers isn't a good comparison. Both do a lot more work than we do. You have to study hard in school I agree with that. All we do at this point is enjoy the view, program the autopilot and sip diet pepsis all day as we check out chicago from the sky. On average I have days off a month than I work and sometimes drop another day off. I only do 2 day trips or locals out here in chicago and I live close to work. My job is basically like a 9-5 job except I am home a lot more. Some people find a way to get by making only 20 grand a year and they make it work.

Some of you guys are way out in left field and are being overly dramatic about inflation. I am simply trying to point out these are management decisions. It is silly to fight against each other, in fact that is what management wants. No one I know of is on food stamps or needs 5 room mates.

 

[Kugelblitz]

Management Sycophant or Servile Pilot???

Last time I checked captains have not taken a paycut at SkyWest. Last time I checked making $70,000+ per year while not the most luxurious lifestyle is definately livable. That example given was simply false. It would take years for inflation to go up that far before you needed food stamps. It was simply another misinformed statement about SkyWest. Perhaps that could happen in 20 years. In 20 years this will be a different industry and we will be making more money. They are having a hard time filling classes at most places. Wages will have to go up eventually as supply falls. Basically the person was trying to make things seem worse than they really are. I suggest he see a financial advisor immediately to see how expenses work.

You have already set your own pay freeze. I am lucky enough to be at CAL now (lucky for the moment anyway) and as of this second year I am back to my 1998 wages, and those were TWA wages. We have captains here and throughout the industry making the same or less than a Captain with us in 1978!!! Thats' 30 friggin years man!! Literally Captains in the late 70's were making around 130K and we are still at that rate today. What is wrong with this picture, especially in light of managerial salaries and bonuses.

We assume a tremendous chunk of responsibility everytime we go to work. The notion that a 70 seat RJ captain is worth 70k when there are sanititation workers in NYC are making the same rate is ridiculous. Note the management for these regional airlines aren't making significantly less than their 1970 era predecessors. They site their education as one of their reasons, I bet you are educated too and spent a lot of time and money on it.

Don't be so binded by your love of the job as to short change yourself. Large numbers of people like you (and we definately have them here at CAL)
undermine us all at the end when it comes time for contracts. There are too many people desperate to attain and then retain this job at any cost. Crud, we are on the verge of extending our stinking contract for 2 more years which has virtually 'Trans States like' work rules. Trans States says it all doesn't it?

I am not one of these union hall fist bangers, but we have to try and re-assert some leverage for those of us who actually make this profession just that, a profession. I proffered in another post how the McPilot training concept is allowing air carriers to bring in people who otherwise would not be doing this job. We need to stand up, require more from ourselves, and expect more.

Not just for us, but also for those who come after us.

 

[DrewBlows]

All we do at this point is enjoy the view, program the autopilot and sip diet pepsis all day as we check out chicago from the sky.

You've never had an emergency I guess.

 

[ohplease!]

Explain to me how one alpa carrier can underbid and fly another alpa carrier's planes, isn't this one of the things a union is supposed to stop. All you heard asa pilots saying is how comair guys screwed you on their pay freeze, news to asa: comair payrates are still higher than yours and now you are putting it to comair. How can any union justify this? Please tell me.

1st. thats one of the biggest problems with alpa, in my opinion. Hopefully the new alpa pres. will be able to steer this ship in the right direction and each alpa group can pull in the same direction for once in a couple generations.

2nd. you're talking about completely different points in time and very different circumstances. comiar's initial pay freeze for A/c brought our earlier negotiations to a stall on payrates (not that our cnc/mec was in ANY hurry to get anything done, they weren't). Now its coming back to bite them in the butt. Depends on who you ask/believe but, alledgedly ASA offered (maybe off the record) alpa comair +1% or so and the mec/cnc turned thier nose up looking for that "rainmaker" contract. Now thats bitting alpa in the butt.

just my obvservation.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Explain this to me......

Why do the CMR CR7s have a Hobbs Meter in them????

Because Delta is renting them out?
So you can track your "dual recieved?"
For oil changes?

 

[bvt1151]

The reason for the Hobbes is because Comair didn't want to invest in ACARS to follow Mx schedules and they surely didn't want to rely on pilot off and on times. The Hobbes was used as a cheap alternative to ACARS and the system was in place well before the new MDC's in the aircraft, so the Hobbes meters were grandfathered in.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Deleted - Hello Newman did something FDJ and the General could not get done, he inspired me to find a way to simply block his stupid posts.

I think the Asparteme from the Diet Colas has resulted in a tumor....

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Tell ya what this job is too easy to even be debating the financial thing. Comparing us to doctors and lawyers isn't a good comparison. Both do a lot more work than we do. You have to study hard in school I agree with that. All we do at this point is enjoy the view, program the autopilot and sip diet pepsis all day as we check out chicago from the sky. On average I have days off a month than I work and sometimes drop another day off. I only do 2 day trips or locals out here in chicago and I live close to work. My job is basically like a 9-5 job except I am home a lot more. Some people find a way to get by making only 20 grand a year and they make it work.

Some of you guys are way out in left field and are being overly dramatic about inflation. I am simply trying to point out these are management decisions. It is silly to fight against each other, in fact that is what management wants. No one I know of is on food stamps or needs 5 room mates.

Hey Newwoosy, explain to me how anyone living on the West Coast with a family to support can make only 20 grand a year and "make it work"??? Elementary school teachers get off much more time than we do, are home every night, and average over $68,000 in this area...and their medical, dental, and vision are all paid by the district with only a $10 co-pay until age 65 where medicare takes over(regardless of when they retire). Oh, and the district contributes 8.25% of their gross pay to a real pension plan!!!They currently top out at $79,900 and in addition get up to a $3500 stipend. They just turned down an offer of a 9% increase this year and a 3% over that the following year. Their starting pay is double the 20,000 you rave about and they don't think thats enough!

 

[ohplease!]

Hey Newwoosy, explain to me how anyone living on the West Coast with a family to support can make only 20 grand a year and "make it work"??? Elementary school teachers get off much more time than we do, are home every night, and average over $68,000 in this area...and their medical, dental, and vision are all paid by the district with only a $10 co-pay until age 65 where medicare takes over(regardless of when they retire). Oh, and the district contributes 8.25% of their gross pay to a real pension plan!!!They currently top out at $79,900 and in addition get up to a $3500 stipend. They just turned down an offer of a 9% increase this year and a 3% over that the following year. Their starting pay is double the 20,000 you rave about and they don't think thats enough!

sounds like you wish you'd been a teacher.

On a related note, those same teachers are not working for a private organization and they're not restrained by govermental "roadblocks" like most others are. They are sucking up our tax money and doing a horrible job teaching children. But at least they're paid well.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

sounds like you wish you'd been a teacher.

On a related note, those same teachers are not working for a private organization and they're not restrained by govermental "roadblocks" like most others are. They are sucking up our tax money and doing a horrible job teaching children. But at least they're paid well.

No, I wish pilots would realize that we are professionals and not keep buying the BS when we're told that we need to keep taking pay and benefit cuts, and or no COLA so the company can grow! Meanwhile the company continues to pull in huge profits every year, including each and every quarter since 9/11!!!
P.S. I knew some knob would make a statement like yours... Is it really to much for us to expect to at least keep up with the cost of living when we work for a company that is making enormous profits(profits that we helped them earn, and were used to purchase another airline, increasing overall earnings even more)????

 

[JoeMerchant]

Everyone is missing the big picture. Why are we competing with each other for flying within a brand. If ALPA was a true union, we wouldn't be competing with one another. However, ALPA isn't a true union, and we are competing with one another. We can point fingers and call each other names all day long, but it won't stop the competition. Only a true national union can do that, and I don't see that happening. Until that happens, we will compete for flying - plain and simple.

 

[1013dot25hPa]

JoeMerchant,

Everyone is missing the big picture. Why are we competing with each other for flying within a brand. If ALPA was a true union, we wouldn't be competing with one another. However, ALPA isn't a true union, and we are competing with one another. We can point fingers and call each other names all day long, but it won't stop the competition. Only a true national union can do that, and I don't see that happening. Until that happens, we will compete for flying - plain and simple.

I think you hit the nail on the head. I have asked my self that same question multiple times. ALPA is not a real union.

My wife, a heavy equipment operating engineer, is union. She is currently doing recurrent training with the union. The first day of class, 2 weeks ago, the class was given the example of airline pilot unions and commercial truckers unions of what a union should not be. No kidding! That's pretty darn sad!

For example, if a laborer (lowest on the foodchain, it's the flagger guy that sticks up his flag for you to slow down or stop at road construction projects, gets paid $21.00/hr starting out, 401K, pension plan, vison, dental, medical, no co-payments) union is on strike, my wife’s union will refuse to do the job and forbids a union member to cross somebody else’s picket line. Even though my wife does a totally different job then a laborer and belongs to a totally different union!

In airline terms, if a Flight Attendant union is on strike, Pilots shouldn't not cross the FA's picket line and refuse to fly. That's the way my wife’s union sees it. It has worked out well for her union. I will never ever surpass her in terms of wages flying for CMR, even as a Captain. Being unionized and having this philosophy has made her union members some of the most well paid, professional and safest in the world.

Maybe airline unions shouldn't take the same drastic measurement as my wife's union does, but dang, within the same "brand", we should not compete with one another. If we do, then why the he!! do we pay union fees?

 

[ASARJMan]

Everyone is missing the big picture. Why are we competing with each other for flying within a brand. If ALPA was a true union, we wouldn't be competing with one another. However, ALPA isn't a true union, and we are competing with one another. We can point fingers and call each other names all day long, but it won't stop the competition. Only a true national union can do that, and I don't see that happening. Until that happens, we will compete for flying - plain and simple.

Blah blah blah! Joey's back, yawn.

STRIKE ASA !