Is a pilot worth anything without a degree?

[Jpilot23]

: Real American Hero :
http://oldbluejacket.com/CarlosHathcock.htm

great slide show

 

[pilotyip]

Actually again G200 shows how out of touch with the real world of where people work and do the things that allow G200 and his ilk to look down on the rest of the world, both literally and figuratively. My avionics repairman without a degree will most likely get a better paying job faster than the college grad that has not used his degree in 10 years. After all he can probably repair computers, and that allows G200 to continue programming his airplane around the world. Watch G200 is going to get out his pocket dictionary out to find out what I said.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Actually again G200 shows how out of touch with the real world of where people work and do the things that allow G200 and his ilk to look down on the rest of the world, both literally and figuratively. My avionics repairman without a degree will most likely get a better paying job faster than the college grad that has not used his degree in 10 years. After all he can probably repair computers, and that allows G200 to continue programming his airplane around the world. Watch G200 is going to get out his pocket dictionary out to find out what I said.

very literate pilot yip.....mumbling old freight dog.

good riddance to your generation.

and like most college grads, I make 2X the money programming my airplane around the world than your "stick and rudder" GED holders do running car $hit to Mexico.

The choice is yours.

and "avionics repairman"? what high tech computer experience is Julio getting on 30 year old Falcon 20s and DC9s? Yup, he's ready to light up the world during next summers annual detroit slowdown furlough Im sure.


same old stupid argument Yip.

 

[FN FAL]

How about the morons with 4 year degrees that are intimidated by washing machines?

If a person with a college degree has to work a washing machine, something has seriously gone wrong with the system.

Sam Lowry: How are the twins?
Jack Lint: Triplets.
Sam Lowry: My, how time flies!

 

[pilotyip]

The AT-2 Avionics Repairman was working for another company on Airbus Avionics. Very employable. Does money buy happiness? Are you happier than me? Do you have right to be happier than me? What defines happiness? I don't actully fly dog stuff to Mexicio all the time, why this weeks I flew group of Exec's to a meeting in Missippi. All day time flying. Living the good life every day.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Does money buy happiness? Are you happier than me? Do you have right to be happier than me? What defines happiness? I don't actully fly dog stuff to Mexicio all the time, why this weeks I flew group of Exec's to a meeting in Missippi. All day time flying. Living the good life every day.

Yes KYIP. I have come to the conclusion that money DOES in fact buy happiness. 99% of the people who say otherwise would jump at the chance to make more....but they are often held back by the lack of basic qualifications, like a college degree. Its a lamea$$ excuse.

Trust me, I dont think a degree means you fly any better, not one bit. But its 2006 and you have to play by the rules or be held back by the man!

Underpaid (or Insane) people say money does not buy happiness. Its just a fact. It pays bills, allows spouses to raise children, puts you in nice neighborhoods, gets you secure retirement planning, allows you to buy toys.

Money=Happiness.

 

[Jpilot23]

Money=Happiness.

I'm sorry you feel that way.

i'm sure as you get older, you will realize there is more to this world than a number in your bank account. having no money will make you unhappy. But having too much money will do the same thing. It's been my experience that the Big Dude up stairs gives you enough. And i've always seem to keep my spending habits. regardless of how much i earned in a month. and i'm sure if someone didn't make that much, they could manage their money and still be able to retire, raise kids, have toys...etc

 

[CaptainMark]

why this weeks I flew group of Exec's to a meeting in Missippi.

where is missippi?....i agree..stay away from programming anything!!!!

 

[pilotyip]

Thank You Capt Mark, is there some way I can program you to the F7 key so I can get professional guidance on how to use a computer input from a pro in the who in a master of the input keyboard. BTW "By requiring pilots to have college degrees, they're ensuring that the applicant at least has some ability to suceed in classroom learning, practice the same discipline used in acquiring the degree in the ground school and helps weed out to find the "cream of the crop". So are you telling that my Army Blackhawk pilot just back from Iraq without a degree has no displinie and has no place in the cockpit of an airplane. Is that what you are telling me the only way to become a disciplined person is to get a four year degree? If so then we have differnet views of determines if a man will be successful in life. You can now go back to golf and Bar-b-q.

 

[inline]

Can you succeed in aviation without a degree? YES

Is it more difficult to get the better jobs? YES

Does a 4 yr degreee make you more competitive to get an interview at the better airlines? YES

Will most of your contemporary competitors for jobs have just as good of skills as you, and will have 4 yr degrees also. YES

If you were a recruiter and had two individuals with roughly equal skills and experience, yet one had a 4 yr degree and the other didn't, which one would you choose? The individual with the 4 yr degree.

It depends. Spirit airlines a few years back was losing their pilots to Northwest. NW liked pilots with 4 year degrees. Don't think it's any coincidence that Spirit therefore started hiring many pilots without a four year degree.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I'm sorry you feel that way.

i'm sure as you get older, you will realize there is more to this world than a number in your bank account. having no money will make you unhappy. But having too much money will do the same thing. It's been my experience that the Big Dude up stairs gives you enough. And i've always seem to keep my spending habits. regardless of how much i earned in a month. and i'm sure if someone didn't make that much, they could manage their money and still be able to retire, raise kids, have toys...etc

I think he's just simplifying it down to money=happiness. Obviously there's more to it, and he alludes to it in his post. The fact remains that the more money you get in life, (in general) the more opportunities open up for you to experience all that life has to offer. Whether it be travel, free time with your family, bangin ho's, passing out bibles, or whatever it is that you are into. And that ability to experience what you want out of life is a HUGE part of that elusive happiness.

Was that family of five sleeping on cardboard in the streets of Manilla I saw a couple weeks ago happy? Most likely. Most humans are happy no matter what their circumstances. But I'll bet they'd all be happier in some way if their material circumstances improved. And does the "big dude upstairs" give enough to all those kids who starve to death in Africa? I guess that's not in your experience though.

 

[GEXDriver]

So are you telling that my Army Blackhawk pilot just back from Iraq without a degree has no displinie and has no place in the cockpit of an airplane.

This what the Army would like you to have to enter the program:

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Preferred qualifications (Minimum plus):[/FONT]
​

• [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Two years of college credit at an accredited institution[/FONT]​
• [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Federal Aviation Agency (FAA) Private Pilots certificate or higher[/FONT]​

If the Warrant Officer Aviator wants to get promoted, he better have a four year degree. If you're good enough, the Army will give you fully funded degree completion so you can meet their educational requirements. They will also fully fund advanced degrees for Warrant Officers. Master's degrees are not uncommon among CW5's.

You can now go back to golf and Bar-b-q.

OK, thanks. See you at the 19th hole.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I'm sorry you feel that way.

It's been my experience that the Big Dude up stairs gives you enough.

Last time I checked the "Big Dude upstairs" does not pay for my wife to stay home or put gas in my boat (two things that make our family very happy)

IMHO - those that get all thier kicks at work in airplanes, have no other choice.

YMMV.

PS - next time you have a beer or share a bong with the Big Dude, ask him to send me a new Cobalt 323. That would make me VERY goddam happy.

thanks!

regards,

young, whippersnapper, materialistic, worthless degree holder

G200.

 

[AerroMatt]

OK, I gotta weigh in on this thread. Here's my stats:

25 years since high-school.
1 year college.
2 years enlisted military (yes, they used to have 2 year enlistments!).
18 years in and out of aviation.
20+ years in and out of truck driving.

Out of the last 18 years since I got my commercial, I've been fully employed as a pilot for only 8, including the last 7 continuous. I got out of aviation for personal reasons at the end of the cold war, and only got back into it after my first marriage ended and times were fat again in this business. I've lost 3 different flying jobs due to contract cancellations or the company went out of business, period. I now have 4 dependents to feed, and with the price of fuel shooting through the roof, I'm wondering how much longer my current corp flight dept will survive.

I wish now I had stayed in college all those years ago, because I could at least get a management job somewhere and not have to drive a truck to feed my family in the event this job goes TU. Others will chime in I'm sure, but there are MUCH EASIER occupations than truck driving, and they're all closed to someone with no college degree.

Just a sample of someone toughing it thru life with no degree...

 

[Jpilot23]

my faith is my own. its up to each person to find peace.

As far as starving kids in Africa...i'm sure the PEOPLE there have NOTHING to do with their problem.

 

[retired guy]

Money can`t buy happiness? Try telling that to my wife.

 

[sluminginpit]

For starters a degree won't garauntee you a job. There are plenty of law schoold grads working in Starbucks waiting for a break.

G200, relax! You act all high and mighty beacause you think you have such a great life flying, and making money! Would you give it all up if your wife was dying, you bet you would!

I always thought I wanted to make tons of money, but the more I make the more I worry about it. I don't have anymore money than before, just more stuff (crap).

I don't have a degree, only spent 1 year in collage and make $90K a year. I have great wife, great dog, both parents still alive and married, roof over my head, healty, can see, can hear, can afford food, heat, water and clothes. All without a degree. If I loose my job, I won't loose any of this, I will adapt and survive.

If you want a degree, get one. Will it help, maybe, maybe not.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

For starters a degree won't garauntee you a job. There are plenty of law schoold grads working in Starbucks waiting for a break.

G200, relax! You act all high and mighty beacause you think you have such a great life flying, and making money! Would you give it all up if your wife was dying, you bet you would!

I always thought I wanted to make tons of money, but the more I make the more I worry about it. I don't have anymore money than before, just more stuff (crap).

I don't have a degree, only spent 1 year in collage and make $90K a year. I have great wife, great dog, both parents still alive and married, roof over my head, healty, can see, can hear, can afford food, heat, water and clothes. All without a degree. If I loose my job, I won't loose any of this, I will adapt and survive.

If you want a degree, get one. Will it help, maybe, maybe not.

WTF does a wife dying have to do with any of this?

Im not acting high and mighty. My job is very average. It pays very average. Its a good job. Im home a LOT. A pilot can never brag about money. Pilot wages have slipped and everyone elses have skyrocketed in the last 10yrs. I make less than 90% of our friends....but I like my job better so thats fine. At this point in my career Im not willing to work 60hrs a week for 2X the money.

So....my jobs decent/average, nothing more. Its also a job YOU very likely wont get without a degree. Most in the stack have that one checked. Oh, guess what, they also have plenty of experience also. Forget that "work experience" bullshat YIP speaks of. Its a copout.

The point is you very well may be SOL if you lose your job and have to compete with college grads. Good luck outside aviation with nothing to put on a resume but some "PIC turbine" time.

"I will adapt and survive" -- thats one hell of a life plan there!

but at the end of the day, all that matters is if this works for you.

 

[GVFlyer]

Money can`t buy happiness? Try telling that to my wife.

It's been my experience that your wife's view is shared by many women.

I believe their basic tenet is, "While money may not buy everything, what it won't buy I don't much need."


GV







~

 

[pilotyip]

Happiness?

Again who is to define happiness? If one deems himself happy in a position you deem you would not be happy, is that person allowed to be happy by his standards or your standards? No one has answered that question.

 

[GVFlyer]

For starters a degree won't garauntee you a job. There are plenty of law schoold grads working in Starbucks waiting for a break.

True, a degree, particularly an irrelevant one, will not guarantee you a job, but it will significantly improve your chances.

G200, relax! You act all high and mighty beacause you think you have such a great life flying, and making money! Would you give it all up if your wife was dying, you bet you would!

I did not read Gulfstream 200's comments to portray an "all high and mighty" attitude. I read it to say if you lose your current job and you have to compete with college grads for a new position, you will lose out.

Also, I don't believe there are any studies showing that an aviation career in any manner increases spousal mortality.

I always thought I wanted to make tons of money, but the more I make the more I worry about it. I don't have anymore money than before, just more stuff (crap).

That's an issue of discipline and character. You don't have to become materialistic if your income increases - that's a choice you make.

I put 35% of my net income into financial instruments each month and limit my possessions to things which in some way improve my personal or familial quality of life.

I don't have a degree, only spent 1 year in collage and make $90K a year. I have great wife, great dog, both parents still alive and married, roof over my head, healty, can see, can hear, can afford food, heat, water and clothes. All without a degree. If I loose my job, I won't loose any of this, I will adapt and survive.

You make it sound as if having a degree somehow makes it more difficult to have the basics and to enjoy a meaningful life. Education and QOL are not mutually exclusive. I have two degrees and share the same things you do except that my income is a multiple of yours, the later primarily because I had the right qualifications when the right opportunity presented itself.



GV

 

[sluminginpit]

Theres more to life than money and education, thats my point.

Good for those who have degrees, you can sit for long hours in class, spend lots of money and say you have a degree!

Good for those who don't, you are lazy, unable to learn and will fail if you lose your flying job because G200 and GVflyer are more qualified than you! There will be no other jobs available.

 

[sluminginpit]

G200 just curious what you would do if you lost your flying job? What is your degree in? Do you think you would be able to find a job easily becasue of your degree?

 

[Gulfstream 200]

G200 just curious what you would do if you lost your flying job? What is your degree in? Do you think you would be able to find a job easily becasue of your degree?

Whatever I decide to do my resume will trump yours, no matter what the degree(s) are in. You will be a high school grad with some flight time. Not a place I would want to be and looking for work outside the cockpit.

thats the whole point here.

Nobody cares what you choose to do. The "I will adapt and survive" method seems to work for you and yours. Thats all that matters.

I couldn't live like that, and wish you luck with it.

Just dont try and pull that "poor me" and "G200 and GV think they are better than everyone" bull$hit. Its the same copout Pilotyip uses once he is backed into a corner. It has no teeth, no validity.

The discussion was about if a 4yr degree is needed, and the vast majority seem to think one would be extremely foolish to venture out today without one. NO......really?

YMMV.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Good for those who don't, you are lazy, unable to learn and will fail if you lose your flying job because G200 and GVflyer are more qualified than you! There will be no other jobs available.

kinda scary you think thats a joke!

oh, dont worry, there will always be jobs avialable outside the cockpit for high school grads.

(Starbucks and Mcdonalds)

 

[sluminginpit]

G200 If I get a degree can I be a dumb A$$ like you!!

You are hired help, nothing more nothing less! Your wife is lucky to have you, you are truly one of a kind!

You win, your smarter and will be a greater success than me! Boo ho !!

 

[pilotyip]

College not necessary, define corner

A corner with no sides is not a corner? When have you ever backed me into a corner where I said you were right and I was wrong? If you fly because you like to, and would be happy making $100K per year which puts you in the upper 5% of wage earners in the US, probably the top 1% in the world then a college degree is not necessary. See there I said it again, say wasn't there a song like that once upon a time? Oh! Different thread. If you are not going to be a pilot or some other type of skilled labor with advanced training, then a college degree is probably necessary. I won't argue that, and on that we are in the same corner.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

G200 If I get a degree can I be a dumb A$$ like you!!

You are hired help, nothing more nothing less! Your wife is lucky to have you, you are truly one of a kind!

You win, your smarter and will be a greater success than me! Boo ho !!

I figured that was about the best you could do.

I rest my case about education.

 

[pilotyip]

bite bite bite

G200 he is playing you like a violin, he posts you bite.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

G200 he is playing you like a violin, he posts you bite.

ya think?