Is a pilot worth anything without a degree?

[apu]

Have to say, this "fall back" argument is a little silly. Think about it, who is going to hire a guy with even an MBA that hasn't been used in 14 years? An old degree is as useless as no degree. Don't count on that "fall" to be short.

 

[pilotyip]

well said APU

 

[CaptainMark]

Why Does a College Degree Matter?
I get a lot of email from interested individuals asking about if they can get hired by a major airline without a degree but with quality flight experience. Well, the short answer is that if XYZ Airlines wanted to hire 500 pilots and didn't specify anything other than requiring the applicant to have a commercial pilot certificate or ATP rating, they would probably recieve at least 25,000 applications from interested pilots.
By requiring pilots to have college degrees, they're ensuring that the applicant at least has some ability to suceed in classroom learning, practice the same discipline used in acquiring the degree in the ground school and helps weed out to find the "cream of the crop". I'm not saying that pilots with degrees are any better or worse than pilots without, but obtaining a college degree can be a whole lot easier than making it to the cockpit.
A college degree also should matter to you on a personal level. In 2001, the industry saw a lot of pilot furloughs where they were temporarily laid off and had to pursue other employment. Now if you have no skills or education apart from what you learned while attaining your certificates and ratings and you're not able to find a flying job, you'll be hard pressed to maintain your quality of life and continue to feed your family. If you want to keep all of your options open in the airline industry, get a degree

 

[Draginass]

Can you succeed in aviation without a degree? YES

Is it more difficult to get the better jobs? YES

Does a 4 yr degreee make you more competitive to get an interview at the better airlines? YES

Will most of your contemporary competitors for jobs have just as good of skills as you, and will have 4 yr degrees also. YES

If you were a recruiter and had two individuals with roughly equal skills and experience, yet one had a 4 yr degree and the other didn't, which one would you choose? The individual with the 4 yr degree.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Have to say, this "fall back" argument is a little silly. Think about it, who is going to hire a guy with even an MBA that hasn't been used in 14 years? An old degree is as useless as no degree. Don't count on that "fall" to be short.

100% wrong.

An old degree is A DEGREE nontheless.

NO DEGREE makes you look like a GED or high school graduate. Better bank on flying car $hit for YIP until the automakers slow down and you take your seasonal layoff. Then his brother can hire you to work in his muffler shop. What a joy.

Its 2006 folks. A 4 yr degree is what a high school diploma used to be. Its the baseline.

Cant believe this argument still takes place!

and yeah, I know Bill gates didnt finish college. Wake up, you aren't Bill Gates, you're just a dumba$$ pilot.


:erm:

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Why Does a College Degree Matter?
I get a lot of email from interested individuals asking about if they can get hired by a major airline without a degree but with quality flight experience. Well, the short answer is that if XYZ Airlines wanted to hire 500 pilots and didn't specify anything other than requiring the applicant to have a commercial pilot certificate or ATP rating, they would probably recieve at least 25,000 applications from interested pilots.
By requiring pilots to have college degrees, they're ensuring that the applicant at least has some ability to suceed in classroom learning, practice the same discipline used in acquiring the degree in the ground school and helps weed out to find the "cream of the crop". I'm not saying that pilots with degrees are any better or worse than pilots without, but obtaining a college degree can be a whole lot easier than making it to the cockpit.
A college degree also should matter to you on a personal level. In 2001, the industry saw a lot of pilot furloughs where they were temporarily laid off and had to pursue other employment. Now if you have no skills or education apart from what you learned while attaining your certificates and ratings and you're not able to find a flying job, you'll be hard pressed to maintain your quality of life and continue to feed your family. If you want to keep all of your options open in the airline industry, get a degree

read this again, very well said.

You can shoot for the best jobs or you can settle for the $hit.

The choice is yours

 

[pilotyip]

Ged?

Dragin, they won't be equal. At 25 the college grad has 1000 TT, 35 MEL and a 4 yr degee. The 25 yr old non-degreed guy has 5000 TT, 3500 MEL, 2000 TJ, a jet type and 1000 TJ PIC. At age 25 which guy gets hired? Only shallow people who are really not sure of themselves judge other people by the degrees they hold. BTW G200 So someone with a 2-yr dgree from a community college, an avionics repair license and 4 years working as an AT-2 an EA-6B's is the same as GED, is that what you are telling us? Only 4-yr degree people have any worth as a huuman being?

 

[Gulfstream 200]

. BTW G200 So someone with a 2-yr dgree from a community college, an avionics repair license and 4 years working as an AT-2 an EA-6B's is the same as GED, is that what you are telling us? Only 4-yr degree people have any worth as a huuman being?

Yup. thats EXACTLY what I am telling you.

A GED and some aviation experience is completly useless if you have to find employment outside the cockpit. On paper you are the same as the average Mcdonalds counter help -- a high school grad. Face reality, how do you know at 25 that you will want/be able to fly airplanes for the next 40 years? I hope I dont. That would be very boring. (just an opinion)

At least with a degree (even an old one) you can spruce up a resume to look elsewhere. Put all that stupid repair license AT2 EA6B, 5000TT turbine PIC blah blah bull$hit you want on a resume and the employer will be left looking for one thing ---

your degree.

then comes the excuses....

whats next? most likely -- "dont call us we will call you".

that is honestly how I see todays marketplace. Only a fool enters unprepared and a 4 yr degree is baseline today. Just reality IMHO.

You are truly showing your era and age by thinking this "Turbine PIC" thing is the golden road. Its just not so anymore. Thats just another requirement to be checked off on the application laundry list, AFTER the degree.

YMMV.

 

[Jpilot23]

Thanks for the advice. I'm sure that there are some people in aviation who have gotten by without a degree. and i'm sure they're some who have fallen on their face. I basically see college as big hoops to jump through, and employers probably see them that way as well. They want to see if they (employers) say jump you ask how high. I see the value of a degree, but i just don't think a man/woman should be defined by a piece of paper. I know tons of people how got drunk almost every night, and went to class and barely past all of their classes. But hey they still have a degree. They may have showed up late, cheated, blah blah whatever, but they still passed and still have a degree.

and i think in most cases those bad habits will carry over in the workforce. maybe not at first when you have that new shiny job you go to, but when it turns into WORK. Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying that getting a degree is foolish or anything like that. what i'm saying is that it saddens me that people in this world are defined by a piece of paper. Anyway, i am going back to get my degree. I'm actually excited about it b/c i'm sure i'll be able to focus and still get a great deal of flying in b/c of my instructor certificates.

Another thing i will say before people say i've set my goals to low, or this and that. I got into, and i'm still in aviation b/c i want to wake up and go to a job i ENJOY. Money is an issue for me but its not the #1. As long as i'm happy in a job and i'm not starving, i will probably be happy. But to each his/her own.

Again thank you so much for posting your advice.

 

[Metro752]

How about the morons with 4 year degrees that are intimidated by washing machines?

 

[Jpilot23]

: Real American Hero :
http://oldbluejacket.com/CarlosHathcock.htm

great slide show

 

[pilotyip]

Actually again G200 shows how out of touch with the real world of where people work and do the things that allow G200 and his ilk to look down on the rest of the world, both literally and figuratively. My avionics repairman without a degree will most likely get a better paying job faster than the college grad that has not used his degree in 10 years. After all he can probably repair computers, and that allows G200 to continue programming his airplane around the world. Watch G200 is going to get out his pocket dictionary out to find out what I said.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Actually again G200 shows how out of touch with the real world of where people work and do the things that allow G200 and his ilk to look down on the rest of the world, both literally and figuratively. My avionics repairman without a degree will most likely get a better paying job faster than the college grad that has not used his degree in 10 years. After all he can probably repair computers, and that allows G200 to continue programming his airplane around the world. Watch G200 is going to get out his pocket dictionary out to find out what I said.

very literate pilot yip.....mumbling old freight dog.

good riddance to your generation.

and like most college grads, I make 2X the money programming my airplane around the world than your "stick and rudder" GED holders do running car $hit to Mexico.

The choice is yours.

and "avionics repairman"? what high tech computer experience is Julio getting on 30 year old Falcon 20s and DC9s? Yup, he's ready to light up the world during next summers annual detroit slowdown furlough Im sure.


same old stupid argument Yip.

 

[FN FAL]

How about the morons with 4 year degrees that are intimidated by washing machines?

If a person with a college degree has to work a washing machine, something has seriously gone wrong with the system.

Sam Lowry: How are the twins?
Jack Lint: Triplets.
Sam Lowry: My, how time flies!

 

[pilotyip]

The AT-2 Avionics Repairman was working for another company on Airbus Avionics. Very employable. Does money buy happiness? Are you happier than me? Do you have right to be happier than me? What defines happiness? I don't actully fly dog stuff to Mexicio all the time, why this weeks I flew group of Exec's to a meeting in Missippi. All day time flying. Living the good life every day.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Does money buy happiness? Are you happier than me? Do you have right to be happier than me? What defines happiness? I don't actully fly dog stuff to Mexicio all the time, why this weeks I flew group of Exec's to a meeting in Missippi. All day time flying. Living the good life every day.

Yes KYIP. I have come to the conclusion that money DOES in fact buy happiness. 99% of the people who say otherwise would jump at the chance to make more....but they are often held back by the lack of basic qualifications, like a college degree. Its a lamea$$ excuse.

Trust me, I dont think a degree means you fly any better, not one bit. But its 2006 and you have to play by the rules or be held back by the man!

Underpaid (or Insane) people say money does not buy happiness. Its just a fact. It pays bills, allows spouses to raise children, puts you in nice neighborhoods, gets you secure retirement planning, allows you to buy toys.

Money=Happiness.

 

[Jpilot23]

Money=Happiness.

I'm sorry you feel that way.

i'm sure as you get older, you will realize there is more to this world than a number in your bank account. having no money will make you unhappy. But having too much money will do the same thing. It's been my experience that the Big Dude up stairs gives you enough. And i've always seem to keep my spending habits. regardless of how much i earned in a month. and i'm sure if someone didn't make that much, they could manage their money and still be able to retire, raise kids, have toys...etc

 

[CaptainMark]

why this weeks I flew group of Exec's to a meeting in Missippi.

where is missippi?....i agree..stay away from programming anything!!!!

 

[pilotyip]

Thank You Capt Mark, is there some way I can program you to the F7 key so I can get professional guidance on how to use a computer input from a pro in the who in a master of the input keyboard. BTW "By requiring pilots to have college degrees, they're ensuring that the applicant at least has some ability to suceed in classroom learning, practice the same discipline used in acquiring the degree in the ground school and helps weed out to find the "cream of the crop". So are you telling that my Army Blackhawk pilot just back from Iraq without a degree has no displinie and has no place in the cockpit of an airplane. Is that what you are telling me the only way to become a disciplined person is to get a four year degree? If so then we have differnet views of determines if a man will be successful in life. You can now go back to golf and Bar-b-q.

 

[inline]

Can you succeed in aviation without a degree? YES

Is it more difficult to get the better jobs? YES

Does a 4 yr degreee make you more competitive to get an interview at the better airlines? YES

Will most of your contemporary competitors for jobs have just as good of skills as you, and will have 4 yr degrees also. YES

If you were a recruiter and had two individuals with roughly equal skills and experience, yet one had a 4 yr degree and the other didn't, which one would you choose? The individual with the 4 yr degree.

It depends. Spirit airlines a few years back was losing their pilots to Northwest. NW liked pilots with 4 year degrees. Don't think it's any coincidence that Spirit therefore started hiring many pilots without a four year degree.