Is a pilot worth anything without a degree?

[Gulfstream 200]

For starters G200 you have a major anger managment issue!

Wrong on the age only 34, but what does my age matter?

Why do you feel I would fail in life if I was out of the cockpit? My point is there are ways to make money and be successful without a degree. I don't do real estate because I need the money, I live fine on what I make! I do it because I like to and it has worked for me. Why is this wrong in your opinion?

You like flying and feel it works for you and thats great, but layoff the fact you think your high and mighty over me because my lack of degree! Do I regret not getting one, sure. Would I get one now for aviation, no. Could I afford to live in your neighborhood and drive the same car as you, probally, and all without a degree.

This career continues to be a major disapointment to many in it! You know as well as I do that a degree helps but is not a catch all. There are plenty of good jobs you can get without one.

I agree, the degree is not a catch all...my only point was it limits you very much...and anyone starting in this field today would be crazy to not get it done - right away. I would kick myself in the ass if I could not appy to Capt Marks 225K/yr job because I couldnt check the stupid box. I dont think a degree makes one fly any better...but dont enter the game without the right tools.

I cant agree on the good jobs without one though. At one time you could make a good living in a factory or as a tradesman. $25/hr just does not cut it anymore IMHO....and factory jobs, well we dont need to know where thats going (ZSPD)

and no, no anger issues man. I dont get angry, I just like to argue. Its a law school thing...

be well

G200

 

[CaptainMark]

Capt Mark no doubt about your being bud being the smart one he doesn't fly airplanes for a living. That is something we can agree upon!

well he has tons of dough and property etc...but he has hi blood pressure and says he would give it all up to do what i do..aviation was his first love...i say he was the smart one..but maybe we were...i hope i never have to do the 9-5 thing..that would suck...but pilotyip....we can agree on a lot more things..i just like arguing with you....otherwise this website would be to boring....no go unload that falcon...

 

[airspeedsalive]

For starters G200 you have a major anger managment issue!

Wrong on the age only 34, but what does my age matter?

Why do you feel I would fail in life if I was out of the cockpit? My point is there are ways to make money and be successful without a degree. I don't do real estate because I need the money, I live fine on what I make! I do it because I like to and it has worked for me. Why is this wrong in your opinion?

You like flying and feel it works for you and thats great, but layoff the fact you think your high and mighty over me because my lack of degree! Do I regret not getting one, sure. Would I get one now for aviation, no. Could I afford to live in your neighborhood and drive the same car as you, probally, and all without a degree.

This career continues to be a major disapointment to many in it! You know as well as I do that a degree helps but is not a catch all. There are plenty of good jobs you can get without one.

Sluming...There are a lot of us here without degrees, flying and having a great life. Don't let these guys ruin your day.

 

[pilotyip]

Actually Capt Mark my Falcon auto loads, I open the door and say "What time will you be back sir" and then the cargo unloads. I open the door about the time the "Sir" guy said he would be back and the cargo then loads itself again. This cargo only likes to fly during the in daytime on weekdays. It is the fastest growing portion of our business.

 

[FN FAL]

what you would do if you lost your flying job? What is your degree in? Do you think you would be able to find a job easily becasue of your degree?

1. If I lost my flying job beacuse of any reason not of my own, I'll find another. Beech 99, Beech 1900, Shorts...whatever. I'm picky, but not too picky and as long as boxes need moving, I'm probably vouchsafed in the regional freight industry. Yadda, yadda, yadda, somebody has to be the ditch digger of aviation, it might as well be me, at least I won't miss a car payment.

2. Why wait until you lose a job, before working your degree to your advantage. I got 8 more classes to go and I'm looking for something to do on my own, related to my degree, to do while I have flying job.

 

[LXJ31]

While a degree doesn't make one "better" than another, it certainly doesn't hurt to have it. I didn't finish my BS until recently and its one of the best decisions I've made. Besides, how much television can you watch on the overnights? Take a laptop, your textbooks and do schoolwork; I've seen every episode of Seinfeld anyway.

Some of the classes are a real grind, lots of homework and dry material. But some of the classes can be fascinating; philosophy classes were my favorite.

I took the untraditional route; college dropout, flight instructed, flew cargo etc. My only regret is that I did not start classes sooner, but online courses were pretty rare until the last three or four years.

I also happen to think that companies that do not require a degree, or at least prefer them strongly, probably do not hold their flight crews in much regard. Let the management do the thinking, you just show up and do as your told.

EDIT: This WSJ article discusses the pros and cons of an online degree.
http://www.collegejournal.com/careersqa/choosingschool/20040924-school-qa.html

 

[Gulfstream 200]

While a degree doesn't make one "better" than another, it certainly doesn't hurt to have it. I didn't finish my BS until recently and its one of the best decisions I've made. Besides, how much television can you watch on the overnights? Take a laptop, your textbooks and do schoolwork; I've seen every episode of Seinfeld anyway.

Some of the classes are a real grind, lots of homework and dry material. But some of the classes can be fascinating; philosophy classes were my favorite.

I took the untraditional route; college dropout, flight instructed, flew cargo etc. My only regret is that I did not start classes sooner, but online courses were pretty rare until the last three or four years.

I also happen to think that companies that do not require a degree, or at least prefer them strongly, probably do not hold their flight crews in much regard. Let the management do the thinking, you just show up and do as your told.

EDIT: This WSJ article discusses the pros and cons of an online degree.
http://www.collegejournal.com/careersqa/choosingschool/20040924-school-qa.html

well said!

gotta love it if your company also picks up the tab for your online degrees that you can do in hotels on overnights! nothing beats getting paid to get a free education.

heck, overnights are about the only time I get classwork done anymore....

"what did you do in London?"..."homework"...

(Be sure to keep FI.com in another window to catch up on the dirt also)

 

[pilotyip]

G200 are you agreeing with me, supporting do your degree on-line while flying full time? BTW LXJ31, do you place SWA and Jet Blue in the lower class companies that do not require a degree? 15% of the pilot hired at JB on 4-yr. degree, 10% at SWA no 4 yr. degree. 25% at USA Jet no 4-yr degree.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

G200 are you agreeing with me, supporting do your degree on-line while flying full time? BTW LXJ31, do you place SWA and Jet Blue in the lower class companies that do not require a degree? 15% of the pilot hired at JB on 4-yr. degree, 10% at SWA no 4 yr. degree. 25% at USA Jet no 4-yr degree.

You hear what you want old guy!

extended degrees YIP. Free - its on the employer. But rememeber, you have to GET the job where the employer pays the tuition FIRST.

15%?

10%?

those aren't great odds YIP.

USA JET is your best chance at 25%? No offense....but NO THANKS.

again, the choice is yours. Some might find this very suitable. Many dont.

I think those odds you quoted speak volumes as to the desire to have a 4yr degree before attempting to make it in aviation. But no, NOT REQUIRED. I also bet I can do better than 10% on a roulette table in Vegas.

Does USA JET have tuition reimbursement? IMHO many companies that dont are afraid of losing thier cheap labor....but if they do, might be a way for someone to get out of there without banking on the 10% thing? everyone should take advantage of this.

Others might say avoid USA JET type places altogether by having the requirements checked before the journey begins.

 

[TurboS7]

I have 4 years of college but no degree. I work for a charter outfit flying a 737-800, as a captain I make about 100K per year. FO pay is about half of that. You don't need a degree to fly here just the flight time and experience. Not having a degree I am sure kept me out of the majors in my younger years, the competition is brisk and my stuff went to the non-degree pile from there to the circular file. I do have my Airframe and Powerplant which has been very useful in getting corp jobs. My problem is that when I get out of aviation I will have to make my living at home depo selling toilets or something like that.

 

[CaptainMark]

Actually Capt Mark my Falcon auto loads, I open the door and say "What time will you be back sir" and then the cargo unloads. I open the door about the time the "Sir" guy said he would be back and the cargo then loads itself again. This cargo only likes to fly during the in daytime on weekdays. It is the fastest growing portion of our business.

do you have to pick up all the crushed peanuts on the floor and the drink cups?

 

[LXJ31]

G200 are you agreeing with me, supporting do your degree on-line while flying full time? BTW LXJ31, do you place SWA and Jet Blue in the lower class companies that do not require a degree? 15% of the pilot hired at JB on 4-yr. degree, 10% at SWA no 4 yr. degree. 25% at USA Jet no 4-yr degree.

No offense, but wouldn't those percentages indicate that those companies "strongly prefer" a college degree, kind of like what I said? I would bet that the small percentage of people who do get hired at those companies probably had something else significant going for them like nepotism or some unique skill sets.

In addition to making yourself more marketable for higher paying jobs in and out of aviation, even if you never earned an extra dime for it, its beneficial for your own personal development and satisfaction. (Especially if your company helps foot the bill...)

 

[kman]

Timing and who you know is more important than a degree.

Two guys who went to the same high school together.

First guys goes to ERAU, and also gets an MBA. Gets laid off my two majors, 1 regional and two corporate companies. Who is now giving up and is looking for a job for the last last 6 six months thats not flying related.

Second guy get his CFI two months after high school, gets a corp gig two years later and gets hired at southwest 3 years later.

Its all a crapshoot, Timing, Who you Know, and Luck determine your career. I know 6 guys who are working or have worked and the majors (UAL,SWA,AA,USAIR,CAL), 3 guys did not have a degree. 3 of that 6 are now furloughed ( 2 of them have degrees ).

If the airline or company you want to work for requires a degree, get one. If not I would be more concerned about making the right contacts, quality time.

It is not put any importance on degrees, It just that with my experience, I have found that luck,contacts, and timing will have a greater impact on your career.

I can only hope looking back when I retire, I can say I did the best I could with what I had.

 

[bubbers44]

I just retired from a major without a college degree and so did half of my friends. So making over 200K per year does not require a college degree. And getting over a million lump sum did not require a college degree for me and half my friends. Those who insist it does are not dealing with reality.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I just retired from a major without a college degree and so did half of my friends. So making over 200K per year does not require a college degree. And getting over a million lump sum did not require a college degree for me and half my friends. Those who insist it does are not dealing with reality.

hey Mr Alzheimers, what year were you hired?

Things have changed a bit since 1952.

Consider yourself the last of the lucky, getting hired out of high school and 200K+ in the "golden years" may have been the norm in your time -- not so anymore or for the concievable future IMHO. and pensions...yeah we know how those are fairing....

Its a whole new ballgame today - and its not pretty.