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is 40 to 45 too old to get hired at a major?

waveflyer

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So back to our trolling.

Yip. Answer Bubba's question about military pilots and a degree.
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/airforcejoin/ss/afpilot_2.htm
How to Become an Air Force Pilot
Education

You will need at least a bachelor’s degree, earned at either a civilian college or university or at the Air Force Academy outside Colorado Springs, Colo.
When choosing your degree program, keep in mind that the Air Force prefers "scientific" degrees, such as aerospace engineering, physics, computer science, chemestry, etc. You will also need to have a high college GPA, generally 3.4 or above, to be competitive.

Mil prefers science degree, but simply requires a degree of any kind.

How does that fit into your philos on the degree yip?
 

waveflyer

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https://www.navy.com/careers/aviation/naval-aviators.html
"Qualifications
To be a Navy Pilot or NFO candidate, you must have a bachelor?s degree from a four-year college or university."

The ONLY qualification for naval aviator is a 4 year degree^^^
Other factors for sure- but set in stone, no waivers- get a degree
 

pilotyip

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https://www.navy.com/careers/aviation/naval-aviators.html
"Qualifications
To be a Navy Pilot or NFO candidate, you must have a bachelor?s degree from a four-year college or university."

The ONLY qualification for naval aviator is a 4 year degree^^^
Other factors for sure- but set in stone, no waivers- get a degree
Because when you enter the Navy for a commission with an O in front of it you are coming in for a management and leadership position. You are being prepared for department head duties, staff duties and possible squadron command. You will specialize in a warfare area, such as flying, submarines or driving boats. When a officer who is a pilot or NFO is evaluated in their position, there is only one box for airman-ship, there are 20 other boxes on organizational skills, leadership, written communication, etc. It requires a college degree, because it is not about flying. It is about management and leadership.

If you join the Army as a Warrant Officer, you are a pilot skilled equipment operator and are not required to have a college degree until you have been in for about 10 years and become a senior Commissioned Warrant Officer.

When the military is hard up for pilots like Vietnam, they drop the college degree thing. I flew with many non-degreed pilots, including my PPC, who I consider one of the finest people and pilots I ever flew with. Why because it has nothing to do with flying an airplane.

Robert Lovett, WWII Asst Sec of War for Air, may have saved the US in WWII. He showed we needed quantity, not quality. We will need 100K pilots per year, we will not get that many physically qualified college educated pilots. He said the college was not needed to fly an airplane, so he devised a test to identify those traits and knowledge levels needed to be successful in pilot training. He found that many college educated people could not pass this test, but many high school graduates could. These 19 year old pilots proved their worth all over the globe, flying equipment under conditions that would test almost all of us on this board.
 
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waveflyer

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You're confusing what's possible, with what's good and with what's qualified and preferred.
Major airlines each have 10,000+ applicants onboard-
So reverse the question. Why would they take a pilot without a degree when all things being equal they can choose a pilot with one?

Are you really trying to say that leadership, management ability, and communication skills as well as some aptitude in a classroom environment isn't applicable in our career??
 

Dumb Pilot

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Are you really trying to say that leadership, management ability, and communication skills as well as some aptitude in a classroom environment isn't applicable in our career??

Are you saying that pilots from most carriers in other countries that hire their pilots and train them under their own academy formats lack these qualities???
 

HA25

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Are you saying that pilots from most carriers in other countries that hire their pilots and train them under their own academy formats lack these qualities???

those pilots are vetted and put thru an academic instruction that far exceeds the typical college degree academic requirements in the US, except for the better tier schools or military academies. There is a washout rate, and there is a lot of competitive testing and evaluation. Apple's and Oranges.... IT's as if they DO have a college degree. Certainly not like comparing it to someone who's never gone to college in the US and got their licenses and ratings at the local FBO...
 

Dumb Pilot

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those pilots are vetted and put thru an academic instruction that far exceeds the typical college degree academic requirements in the US,.

You and I are in agreement then, the requirement of a degree In dentistry for example, as a requirement for a pilot job is just moronic! Don't get me wrong I'm all for higher education, but something that has to do with our career, not just a degree in anything as long as you have a degree......, that is just plain stupid.
 
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HA25

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You and I are in agreement then, the requirement of a degree In dentistry for example, as a requirement for a pilot job is just moronic!

we are, but until we have ab-initio programs here that more resemble the military and less resemble a "have cash, we'll get it done" system, we'll just have to use the college degree as a sign of accomplishment.

You know as well as I know, anyone who can fog a mirror can pass FAA writtens ...
 

Dumb Pilot

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we are, but until we have ab-initio programs here that more resemble the military and less resemble a "have cash, we'll get it done" system, we'll just have to use the college degree as a sign of accomplishment.

You know as well as I know, anyone who can fog a mirror can pass FAA writtens ...

A degree in something that has to do with our career, yes! A degree for as a "ticking of the box" item? Stupid
 

HA25

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A degree in something that has to do with our career, yes! A degree for as a "ticking of the box" item? Stupid

or worse yet, no degree... even more stupid (under our current very non-competitive pilot training system).

And don't tell me about ERAU and Aeronautics Degrees being selective. Some of the biggest slackers I know got a BS in Aviation there with the help of a Captain daddy and $100K in tuition... I've got an actual Aerospace Engineering degree from a non-aviation california university that was far more difficult to obtain than an "Aviation" Degree... that's like Junior College.

I think, just as with the US Military, a degree in science, engineering or math shows a lot more capable person, especially in the critical areas of how and why planes fly; and therefore should be preferred.
 
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waveflyer

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Considering many pilots have next to no people skills- and communication and getting along with people in really close quarters is a big part of the job- I absolutely would not want a pilot group that is completely void of a wide and varied backgrounds and yes; degree programs. Remember we all influence each other.

It's certainly not moronic- and I too have an aviation business degree from a regular school.

God forbid we have all aviation nerds who have nothing else to add...
 

waveflyer

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I've never flown with a dentist
But it would be such an unusual thing it could be interesting.
I'd get to do all the "you keep saying you're a doctor, but your just a dentist" jokes
 

jonjuan

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You and I are in agreement then, the requirement of a degree In dentistry for example, as a requirement for a pilot job is just moronic! Don't get me wrong I'm all for higher education, but something that has to do with our career, not just a degree in anything as long as you have a degree......, that is just plain stupid.

Then why not stop at 6th grade?
 

CCDiscoB

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Back on topic......I was hired at a major at 47. Finished IOE on my 48th birthday.
I was hired at major at 51. I feel very fortunate. Military, but not academy...
 

HA25

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I was hired at major at 51. I feel very fortunate. Military, but not academy...

Hey CC, you don't know me by this name, but I know you from back in the start of the last decade on here... As I recall you were with World for the longest time, glad to see you landed back on your feet again.... In my class at HAL, we had a guy who was also 50, former UAL,Aloha, Emirates, Skymark, NetJets, but to name 5 of the 10 he's been with.... Made me look like a lightweight... He's was positive and upbeat and set a great example for the class. Moronically (autocorrected from "ironically" but I'm keeping it, as it fits better), due to the dumb way HAL assigns seniority, he was the junior man of the class.
 

vetrider

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.....

I think, just as with the US Military, a degree in science, engineering or math shows a lot more capable person, especially in the critical areas of how and why planes fly; and therefore should be preferred.

Like this guy?

http://www.blueangels.navy.mil/team/officers.aspx

Look at the Blue Angels bios over the years. You'll see just as many agriculture, political science, and other type degrees as what you describe. Flying is as much art as science in my opinion.

Edit: The link didn't transfer directly, but I was referring to LCDR Cheng. Science, Engineering, and Math are all wonderful fields, but as far as the piloting profession goes, I don't think they necessarily translate to being more capable.
 
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HA25

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Like this guy?

http://www.blueangels.navy.mil/team/officers.aspx

Look at the Blue Angels bios over the years. You'll see just as many agriculture, political science, and other type degrees as what you describe. Flying is as much art as science in my opinion.

Edit: The link didn't transfer directly, but I was referring to LCDR Cheng. Science, Engineering, and Math are all wonderful fields, but as far as the piloting profession goes, I don't think they necessarily translate to being more capable.

The most pathetic guy at the bottom of his class in UPT gets more aerodynamics and theory thru his head than anyone who pops open the ATP written and memorizes questions... so in the end, sure.. like that guy.
 

pilotyip

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Flying is as much art as science in my opinion.
.

Randy Cunningham, Navy ace Vietnam, was a Phys Ed major. However some here feel that he on-line degree in Gender Studies from Bumble Bee State is the only acceptable proof of excellence and no other life experience or educational accomplishment can compare. Like a pilot I know 2 years a the Naval Academy, couldn't hack the advanced math, was let go. Joined the Army became a pilot flew combat Medivac in Iraq two tours. No college degrees most airlines would not look beyond the unchecked box in the lower corner of the application to look at him. They look at him like Wavy as a lazy guy who has nothing in life. Fortunately gifted companies like SWA know better and look at the whole man concept to pick true winners.
 
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