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Interesting passengers...

skydiverdriver

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I was sitting on a taxiway because of an ATC ground hold recently, and a frequent flyer in the back called our parent company, in a state far, far away, and asked them about the delay. The frequent flyer department told him that we couldn't possibly be delayed, as they had no notice of any delays. So, I wonder what the passenger thought then? Did he think we were lying? I guess we just wanted to sit there and delay all of those people and miss my only meal break for the day just because? Perhaps the passenger thought he could have some influence on the government employee that stopped us, by calling the airline he was flying on? Did he think we could now go, because our company said there was no delay?

I understand when you are sitting in the back of a plane and want to get to the destination, that you think there is something you can do. I suppose if it was the airline's fault that we were delayed, a call might help, but what would cause that? And why would we tell them it was an ATC delay if that were not the case? I think people expect everyone else to be disingenuous with them, and nobody takes anyone's word anymore. I'm not sure why this is, but it makes me wish I still flew cargo.

I also think that giving passengers alcohol without any food to go with it is a recipe for increasing problems. And they are worried about US drinking!!
 

surplus1

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skydiverdriver said:

I think people expect everyone else to be disingenuous with them, and nobody takes anyone's word anymore. I'm not sure why this is, but it makes me wish I still flew cargo.
Skydiverdriver,

Actually, what people expect is that other people are just like them. They break their word regularly, so they expect you to break yours; they lie, so they expect others to lie to them; they steal, so they expect others to steal from them; they cheat, so they expect to be cheated; they have no integrity, so they expect others to be equally lacking; they have no morals, so they expect others to be immoral; they can be bought for a few pieces of silver, so they expect others to be for sale; they'll take your seniority if given the chance, so they suspect you of trying to take theirs, etc., etc.

Sorry, I'm a cynic who sees things as they are, rather than as they ought to be. He who is himself a dog sees you as just another dog. Thus the expression "dog-eat-dog".

Regards,
 

skydiverdriver

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Yes, I agree that people do expect others to act the way they do. I guess I just don't understand why they think we would lie to them about a delay. What would we have to gain from that? Do they actually think the controllers would allow us to sit on a taxiway for an hour for no reason? I just don't understand how people think, I guess. Thanks for the effort.
 

ShawnC

Skirts Will Rise
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The problem is that people (in general) don't think, and when they do think they often don't think it though.
 

Tim47SIP

Serving for the USofA
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Surplus

"Actually, what people expect is that other people are just like them. They break their word regularly, so they expect you to break yours; they lie, so they expect others to lie to them; they steal, so they expect others to steal from them; they cheat, so they expect to be cheated; they have no integrity, so they expect others to be equally lacking; they have no morals, so they expect others to be immoral; they can be bought for a few pieces of silver, so they expect others to be for sale; they'll take your seniority if given the chance, so they suspect you of trying to take theirs, etc., etc. "




You are one of the most versed individuals that I know of. Not only are you an expert on contracts and unions, but you also know quite abit about the Clinton administration. Keep up the good work! (P.S. Just a little humor! I do enjoy your posts).
;)
 

jetexas

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I always get a laugh when we have a delay on the taxiway and I hear about passengers whining that the weather at our destination is fine. Afterall, they did just talk to their wife before we left the gate and she said the weather at destination X was just fine!
It doesn't matter if there is a Force 5 hurricane enroute, the weather at the destination is fine, so lets just go! And that wife looking out the window (who surely knows all about IFR mins, max crosswinds, etc ) is as good a weather forecaster as the NWS.
 

Typhoon1244

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skydiverdriver said:
...a frequent flyer in the back called our parent company, in a state far, far away, and asked them about the delay.
What was he doing on a cell phone after you blocked out, anyway?
 

Hovernut

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If you're going to ground hold for some length of time, I suspect the CA will let the PAX use their cell phones to notify people at the destination, and appease them so they can talk to their "honeys." That happened to me when a DAL Express 737 blew a main on landing at MCO. Not much navigating to mess with on the ground, eh?

What gets me is that you try to relax the rules a bit to "ease the pain" and you get stabbed in the back for doing so. Kinda makes you bitter next time the same situation presents itself. If only there was a "cockpit channel" like on UAL where pax can listen in on ATC chatter and, given a little intelligence on their part, they just might see the big picture and realize the flight crew is just as stuck as they are!

The drinking thing's got me, too. After doing my share of non-revving and getting to sit up in the comfy seats once in a while, you see certain types of pax that just swill the liquor and start to get obnoxious at the littlest inconveniences. I wonder just how diminished their survival skills would be in case of an emergency. Things that make you go "Hmmmm!" (never really was an Arsenio fan, though)
 
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Typhoon1244

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Hovernut said:
If you're going to ground hold for some length of time, I suspect the CA will let the PAX use their cell phones to notify people at the destination, and appease them so they can talk to their "honeys."
Actually, I've done that on several occasions. Laptop computers, too. Why piss the people off any more than you have to, right? Let 'em play a few rounds of Microsoft Solitaire.

The drinking thing's got me, too.
I have never understood the logic of locking people inside an aluminum pipe, telling them they're going to be two hours late getting wherever...and then passing out free booze! That's a recipe for "air-rage," isn't it?

(Although, I think making people strip down to their boxers, unpack and repack all their bags, and drink their own breast milk is a recipe for air-rage, too.)
 

surplus1

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Re: Surplus

Tim47SIP said:

You are one of the most versed individuals that I know of. Not only are you an expert on contracts and unions, but you also know quite abit about the Clinton administration. Keep up the good work! (P.S. Just a little humor! I do enjoy your posts).
;)
Tim,

Hmmmm. I get your pun and take it with a smile and grain of salt?

On the labor end I'm not really an "expert" but I have spent more than 30 years dealing with IFALPA and USALPA and airline related labor issues. That includes at least 15 yrs as a negotiator. Even though I'm somewhat "slow", with that much time on the line you learn quite a few things by osmosis.

Although not a registered Democrat (independent) I voted for Clinton both times and think he did a pretty good job as President. While I think his sexual adventures were unwise, when I was a boy my father taught me that men don't "kiss and tell" so I really don't blame Clinton for not taking the Jerry Springer route to satisfy the prurient interests of the media or the Republicans (themselves the greatest hypocrites known to man).

Interestingly, American Presidents have a history of extra-marital affairs and assorted budoir exploits both in and out of the White House, among them Jefferson, Roosevelt, Eisenhower, Kennedy, to name just a few. Strangely, none "enjoyed" the publicity or criticism so generously afforded to Clinton's acceptance of fringe benefits offered by the "ladies" of his acquaintance.

No doubt I'll be flamed for saying that, but that's OK. Here's some more fuel for the fire. I didn't vote for the current occupant of the White House and regret his appointment to the Presidency by the courts. While no lover of Mr. Gore, I see the Bush "victory" as little more than a well engineered bloodless coup.

I see GWB as a relatively harmless buffoon himself, and his associates (with one exception) as down right dangerous. He was not elected by a majority of the American people and, being a Floridian, I know he was also not elected by a majority of the people of Florida. Unless I'm mistaken, he is the first President in our history "elected" by one vote cast by the minority party. I accept him, because I must accept the decision of the court and nothing more.

There's a lot about labor unions that I don't like, but there's a lot more that I dislike about Republicans and their corporate alliances. Their alleged morality may be sexually pure, but is rife with far worse.

See how weird I am? Do you know any other airline pilots that don't vote Republican?

Surplus1

PS. I enjoy you posts as well and welcome your comments and your critique.

Fly Safe.
 

MetroSheriff

Hittin' the road...
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Typhoon1244 said:


(Although, I think making people strip down to their boxers, unpack and repack all their bags, and drink their own breast milk is a recipe for air-rage, too.)
Boxers...now there is an idea. I am going to have to go buy some of those. I always wondered why folks were laughing at me standing at the security checkpoint in my leather thong while they searched my bag (overnight bag that is).:D
 

enigma

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skydiverdriver said:
............So, I wonder what the passenger thought then? Did he think we were lying? ............................ I think people expect everyone else to be disingenuous with them, and nobody takes anyone's word anymore. I'm not sure why this is..................
Sky,

Of course he thought you were lying.

Just like used car dealers and auto mechanics, airlines have the reputation amongst the people of being liars. And just like the auto industry, the airline industrys' reputation was earned. We used to get letters from management giving guidance on how to avoid telling the truth about weather/broken airplanes/turbulence, etc. Passenger service agents will do almost anything to avoid telling the sheep that the airplane is broken at the gate. Also. Thanks to the USAToday, everyone thinks they are an industry expert, and know more about it than we do.

I think that we do a much better job of giving out honest information that we used to, but it's hard to blame pax for distrusting the industry.

Good topic,
regards
8N
 

skydiverdriver

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Yeah,
I guess the next time we allow people to use their cells while waiting on a delay, we should say that you can call anyone except our parent company, that will do you no good. I'm suprised nobody has ever tried to call the FAA, since they are the ones that are actually delaying us. And, when the passenger said that there was no delay, we should have said "okay, here we go," and just taken off without a clearance.

PS, Surplus, how would you have felt if Gore had been president on 9/11? I personally would have been very frightened.
 

surplus1

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skydiverdriver said:

PS, Surplus, how would you have felt if Gore had been president on 9/11? I personally would have been very frightened.
Not a bit different than I did with George Bush or maybe even a tad better. When under attack, the defense of our country rests with the military, not the President. I trust the military. However, I do believe that anyone who achieves the Presidency of the United States, will do everything humanly possible, using the advice of our military leaders, to defend this country and its people from our enemies.

Bush is a photo-op showman, who spent his time avoiding the Vietnam war by being a weekend warrior flying around Texas. Gore served in country. It is one thing to talk about making war and another to have been to war.

That having been said, I'm not particularly impressed by a President who thumps his chest, brandishes his six shooter and makes threats. There is more to this country than cowboy hats, pistols and spurs. I'm a little leary of New Englanders from Texas. The business of war and peace is far more serious that political grandstanding. Americans are very proud of our military, as well they should be. Bush never misses an opportunity to use that for personal political advantage. I suppose I shouldn't blame him in that he has little else to offer, but sword waving doesn't inspire confidence. My reaction to that is much like my reaction to some of the bells and whistles in our fancy cockpits .... what's it gonna do next?

I certainly hope the Congress and the people will not allow Bush to immerse our country in another undeclared war. Our Constitution vests the power to declare war in the Congress and that is where I believe it should stay. It's fine for any President to respond immediately when necessary, but I do not cotton to the idea of any one man having the power to declare war, regardless of his political party. That is why we have 3 branches of government and NO KING.
 

KingAirer

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Ole AL wasnt exactly humpin the jungle mountains of Nam looking for charlie, he was a journalists .
 

shaun3000

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KingAirer said:
Ole AL wasnt exactly humpin the jungle mountains of Nam looking for charlie, he was a journalists .
Ya beat me to it!

And this thread is for pax bashing, not prez bashing. ;)
 

SDF2BUF2MCO

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Kind of straying away from SDD's original thread....
Surplus, I am somewhat surprised on your view of Al Gore given you seem to desire honesty and integrity. Reading your posts regarding your union (meaning you desire honesty and integrity there), think you'd want the same with politicians. As far as favoring GWB or AG, my view of politics it is a professional wrestling match, it's a staged event and the outcome was decided before the game began.
Getting back to SDD's original thread. As a pax, I kind of agree with Enigma's comments. We seem to have a hard time telling the truth. I've been in situations where I felt I was being lied to (e.g., "the plane has landed and we'll be departing in just a few minutes"....six hours later I am being rerouted on another!). I don't know if people lie because that is what the customer wants to hear or if people would just rather lie.
SDD, just to let you know, when these situations arise I don't flash out my FF card and tell the airline what a great customer I am. I understand it is grievious for everyone when there are problems and realize the pilots want to get going as much as the folks in the back do. It has been my experience the bad customers stick in my mind more than the good ones. Guess that's human nature.
 
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surplus1

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shaun3000 said:


Ya beat me to it!

And this thread is for pax bashing, not prez bashing. ;)
Agreed. Sorry to digress, I was just answering the question, asked by the threads originator, not trying to change the thread.

To SDF2,

I agree. Politics is a game, mostly of money and lies. The GWB crew is expert at both, but the other side is no slouch either.

As the others said, Gore was a journalist (in a combat zone). Bush was a president's son playing with NG jets in the security of Texas. I wouldn't mind that if he didn't try to come across as the "savior" of our armed forces. That he isn't.
 

Typhoon1244

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Earlier this year, the DFW airport cops arrested a 30-year-old woman for public intoxication after she fondled an ASA captain's crotch before boarding his flight.

:) Now why can't we have more passengers like that?
 

Typhoon1244

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MetroSheriff said:
I always wondered why folks were laughing at me standing at the security checkpoint in my leather thong while they searched my bag (overnight bag that is).
:eek: I could have gone until our next contract without that picture in my head....
 
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