Interesting MOA encounter with Viper

[Hold West]

A squadron is not the controlling agency. "SeaLord," or "Clover Control" or "Nellis Range Control" is not a squadron.

Each MTR and piece of special use airspace has one organization that "owns" it, usually a squadron or a wing - different from and not to be confused with the "controlling agency". Any military folks that want to use one have to coordinate with the owner, that's how basic deconfliction of the airspace works. The problem is that very few civilians have access to the AP/1B that says who owns what and give the point of contact.

However, for the civillian pilot wishing to transit a MOA will not necessarily get reliable information from ATC, and may be unable to contact the range or MOA agency, and the MOA may be overseen by civillian ATC until it's active. ATC may not know, and typically does not know when it's going to be active, until it goes active. Part time MOAs may also go active off-hours.

Civil ATC absolutely does know when MOAs are scheduled hot, since ATC has to separate from them! ATC may not know if aircraft are in a given area or not at the exact moment, but they DO know the times and altitudes the MOA is scheduled.

It takes less than 30 seconds, but ATC can only tell the pilot if it's not active now...and may not even know that. ATC can't say what will happen thirty seconds from now.

A MOA can't go hot on a second's notice, since ATC has to have time to clear non-participating IFR traffic out of the area. In fact, IIRC, there's a time limit on how far in advance an MOA must be NOTAMed, I think it's at least one hour, maybe two. Can't look it up, the appropriate FAA order, 7610.4, has sensitive information in it and had been taken off the web.

So there is no such thing as a no-notice activation of a MOA. Now, that's not to say that a MOA can't be scheduled for an 8-hour block, and only occupied intermittently by aircraft. That ATC won't know about, and can either be handled by blocking the airspace for the full period OR blocking it on request of the using agency or directly by the aircraft going into it. In either case the NOTAM still stands; I've told countless VFR aircraft that an MOA had no known aircraft in it at the moment, but that it was NOTAMed hot and thus the fighters could show up at any second.

I wouldn't go through an active MOA for all the tea in China [Edit: unless it was being worked by an MRU and I could raise them on the radio and coordinate transit with them!]. Others are blissfully ignorant or don't care. You can't legislate stupidity out of existence.

By the way, there is a pretty good SUA website:

http://sua.faa.gov/sua/Welcome.do

It'll let you know what's scheduled.

 

[JimNtexas]

It takes less than 30 seconds, but ATC can only tell the pilot if it's not active now...and may not even know that. ATC can't say what will happen thirty seconds from now.

I know from my military experience that somebody, somewhere, knows when MOAs are going to go hot.

But my experience, especially with the Brownwood MOAs in Texas, is that ATC has no clue about the MOA schedule.

I will not fly into a hot MOA, but if they aren't being used I'd like to avoid a long detour or having to fly through hot bumpy air at low altitude in my fliver.

So I call center and am told that Brownwood is cold. I get right in the middle of it and am told that there are now T-38s or F-16s entering the area, leaving me no choice but to dive down under the MOA, an expensive and uncomfortable situation.

There is a total disconnect between the people who schedule the MOAs, ATC, and we GA airspace users.

Why this happens when a simple web page could solve the problem I can't understand.

 

[stonewall]

There is a total disconnect between the people who schedule the MOAs, ATC, and we GA airspace users.

Why this happens when a simple web page could solve the problem I can't understand.

Check out the previous website Rez posted:

www.seeandavoid.org

Lots of good info.

 

[avbug]

A MOA can't go hot on a second's notice, since ATC has to have time to clear non-participating IFR traffic out of the area. In fact, IIRC, there's a time limit on how far in advance an MOA must be NOTAMed, I think it's at least one hour, maybe two.

It happens all the time. JimNTexas's post above is quite correct. I've had the same experience.

Participating with ATC, no known traffic, suddenly it goes hot. Did ATC know? If they did, it was a state secret, or they lied...but word didn't come down until in the middle of the MOA. I've had the same thing happen when working with a range control as participating traffic in the MOA...even the range control seemed surprised when handed traffic, and that's not been an unusual occurence.

Moreover, if I pop up in the system, or especially as VFR traffic and contact the range control or ATC, I may be nearly on the MOA or in it before they have notice. Again, it's very possible to be in a MOA and even the controlling agency doesn't have that information.

 

[mzaharis]

I had linked to an unofficial post on another board by someone who clamed to be a Luke F-16 pilot, that the two airplanes didn't get closer than 600 feet. Now, Luke Air Force Base is officially reporting the same thing. Here's an article on Luke AFB's statement about the incident:

http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/AirForceSaysF16CameNoCloserThan600Feet_197689-1.html

From that article:

An investigation by our sister publication, Aviation Safety, scheduled to appear in the May issue, reveals that the Air Force’s account of the intercept contrasts with McCall’s report. Major Miki Gilloon, Luke Air Force Base’s public information officer, told Aviation Safety that the F-16’s radar, head-up display and HSD display tapes showed that the F-16 approached the PC-12 on a parallel or divergent heading and got no closer than 600 feet.


She also said the F-16 did not counter the PC-12’s TCAS evasive maneuvers but approached to visually identify it “in order to contact the civilian pilot and educate him about the risks of transiting an active MOA.” The F-16’s data tapes aren’t releasable to the general public, according to Gilloon. However, the investigation results will be available under the Freedom of Information Act on the Luke Air Force Base web site.

 

[FrozenPilot]

I got a little info about MOA's from a center controller. They need to have 30 minutes notice prior to turning an MOA 'hot'. However, supervisors sometimes fail to give notice to their controllers. Same controller also complained about military pilots commonly causing RA's on TCAS equipped aircraft, even those on IFR flight plans.

While anyone being in a hot MOA is risky business, we certainly have a disconnect between civilian pilots & controllers and the military. I don't see it necessary to get visual contact of an N-number since the FAA has been able to track an aircraft on time and radar data alone. It could have been avoided and the pilot still educated.

Even so, MOAs are shared airspace. Fly safe and fly smart.