Interesting Colgan transcript tidbits

Browntothebone

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 16, 2002
Posts
743
Total Time
-
HOT-1
no but uh out of that six and a quarter two hundred fifty hours was uh part
one twenty one turbine. multi engine turbine.

HOT-2
yeah that's another thing. all the guys— @ came in to our when we
interviewed and he said oh yeah you'll all be upgraded in six months into
the Saab and blah ba blah ba blah and I'm thinking you know what. flying
in the northeast I've sixteen hundred hours. all of that in Phoenix how
much time do you think actual I had or any in in ice. I had more actual
time on my first day of IOE than I did in the sixteen hundred hours I had
when I came here.


HOT-2
no but all these guys are complaining they're saying you know how we
were supposed to upgrade by now and they're complaining
I'm thinking
you know what? I really wouldn't mind going through a a winter in the
northeast before I have to upgrade to captain.

HOT-2
I've never seen icing conditions. I've never deiced. I've never seen any—
I've never experienced any of that. I don't want to have to experience that
and make those kinds of calls. you know I'dve freaked out. I'dve have like
seen this much ice and thought oh my gosh we were going to crash.
 

TNPILOT

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 10, 2002
Posts
342
Total Time
Lots
How many threads do we need on the same topic? Geez.
 

Smacktard

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 28, 2003
Posts
967
Total Time
4000+
HOT-2
I've never seen icing conditions. I've never deiced. I've never seen any—
I've never experienced any of that. I don't want to have to experience that
and make those kinds of calls. you know I'dve freaked out. I'dve have like
seen this much ice and thought oh my gosh we were going to crash.
The only thing I can say in defense of what she said is that most people could say the same thing coming from a background of instructing. Who instructs in a Cessna or Seminole in the snow and ice? I had 1500 hours with a 1000 instructing before getting into a 1900. Coincidentally, my first day of IOE ended with blowing snow down to mins in HPN. She also stated that she was happy to see a winter of ops before a possible upgrade. His part of the conversations... well, I didn't pay for the right seat in the 1900 I flew, I'll stop right there...
 

Amish RakeFight

Registered Loser
Joined
Dec 28, 2005
Posts
8,006
Total Time
.
Marvin seems to stutter a lot in the CVR. Is this the way he speaks (hesitantly) or was he enamoured with the female?
 

SEVEN

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 7, 2006
Posts
1,563
Total Time
6500
Bottom Line: Both pilots were WAY out of their league flying this aircraft. The only question is: Why were they there in the first place? Lot's of changes to come at Colgan Air. This can't happen again. A total lack of experience, maturity, and professionalism in that aircraft that day. Sad to see all the family members affected by this needless crash.
 

BushwickBill

Registered Abuser
Joined
Jul 13, 2005
Posts
822
Total Time
more
Now hang on a second. These pilots are being hung out to dry. The sad thing is there will be no increase in safety to come out of this crash investigation if this is the direction the investigation continues in.

Right now I am ashamed to be a pilot. Mostly because of the opinions expressed by other pilots.

No one has mentioned the pay scale of these pilots and the quality of life that comes with it.

No one has mentioned the duty day or days leading up to the crash. Yes Colgan claims that they meet the duty requirements but in my experience that means nothing.

No one has mentioned the amount of hours the pilots were flying a year.

No one has mentioned that the SIC was complaining about her ears. Why? Can't you take a sick day at Colgan?

People take a cheap shots at honest evaluations taken out of context. Not just people, pilots. These pilots were honest about their capabilities. They were not gung ho or macho. You should all be ashamed of yourselves.

Lets stand up for ourselves and let the public know that the FAA and the airlines are hanging these pilots out to dry and no safety improvements will come of it.

Pilots need to join together for an increase in pay and QOL. Rather than piss on the freshly dug graves of underpaid and overworked pilot slaves.
 

fifinella

Active member
Joined
May 7, 2008
Posts
43
Total Time
+
Now hang on a second. These pilots are being hung out to dry. The sad thing is there will be no increase in safety to come out of this crash investigation if this is the direction the investigation continues in.

Right now I am ashamed to be a pilot. Mostly because of the opinions expressed by other pilots.

No one has mentioned the pay scale of these pilots and the quality of life that comes with it.

No one has mentioned the duty day or days leading up to the crash. Yes Colgan claims that they meet the duty requirements but in my experience that means nothing.

No one has mentioned the amount of hours the pilots were flying a year.

No one has mentioned that the SIC was complaining about her ears. Why? Can't you take a sick day at Colgan?

People take a cheap shots at honest evaluations taken out of context. Not just people, pilots. These pilots were honest about their capabilities. They were not gung ho or macho. You should all be ashamed of yourselves.

Lets stand up for ourselves and let the public know that the FAA and the airlines are hanging these pilots out to dry and no safety improvements will come of it.

Pilots need to join together for an increase in pay and QOL. Rather than piss on the freshly dug graves of underpaid and overworked pilot slaves.

So what I'm hearing from you is that these pilots should have no responsibility in this because it's everyone elses fault?

These pilots made basic mistakes that have made families who lost their loved ones suffer needlessly. These families will have to endure pain the rest of their lives. This accident should have never happened.

Why don't you express yourself to the mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, loved ones who lost family on this flight and see how much empathy you get.

If it was your loved ones on that flight would you still be coddling and making excuses for the pilots?
 
Last edited:

SEVEN

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 7, 2006
Posts
1,563
Total Time
6500
Now hang on a second. These pilots are being hung out to dry. The sad thing is there will be no increase in safety to come out of this crash investigation if this is the direction the investigation continues in.

Right now I am ashamed to be a pilot. Mostly because of the opinions expressed by other pilots.

No one has mentioned the pay scale of these pilots and the quality of life that comes with it.

No one has mentioned the duty day or days leading up to the crash. Yes Colgan claims that they meet the duty requirements but in my experience that means nothing.

No one has mentioned the amount of hours the pilots were flying a year.

No one has mentioned that the SIC was complaining about her ears. Why? Can't you take a sick day at Colgan?

People take a cheap shots at honest evaluations taken out of context. Not just people, pilots. These pilots were honest about their capabilities. They were not gung ho or macho. You should all be ashamed of yourselves.

Lets stand up for ourselves and let the public know that the FAA and the airlines are hanging these pilots out to dry and no safety improvements will come of it.

Pilots need to join together for an increase in pay and QOL. Rather than piss on the freshly dug graves of underpaid and overworked pilot slaves.
No. You hang on a second. These pilots were responsible for the passengers in the back of the plane. Their job was to take them safely to Buffalo. Not to kill them all and alter the lives of their family members forever. We must take a look at all the factors invloved. But we must also look directly at the cause. The Captain of the aircraft crashed his airplane. We must ensure this does not happen again. Under the SAME circumstances, another crew would have made it to the hotel that night. Let's not bybass the direct result of this crash: Pilot Error. Call it what it is. Let's not tip-toe around the truth. If we do, this kind of stuff will continue to happen.
 

BushwickBill

Registered Abuser
Joined
Jul 13, 2005
Posts
822
Total Time
more
So what I'm hearing from you is that these pilots should have no responsibility in this because it's everyone elses fault?

These pilots made basic pilot 101 mistakes that have made families who lost their loved ones suffer needlessly....this accident should have never happened.

Why don't you express yourself to the mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, loved ones who were passengers and see where that gets you.

If it was your loved ones on that flight would you still be coddling and making excuses for the pilots?
Both you and SEVEN are totally missing the point. Why were these pilots in this cockpit in the first place?

You know why I would never put my loved ones on a regional airline? Because of the lack of pay and poor quality of life that these pilots are faced with.

I know what its like to be overworked and underpaid. You make basic, silly mistakes. If you say that you would never make a basic mistake while fatigued you have never been fatigued.

I can't understand how other pilots who are working in terrible conditions can hang other pilots out to dry who were forced to work in terrible conditions.

No one has even mentioned that the SIC was suffering from some kind of inner ear condition. Way to stand up for each other guys.

Again I am ashamed to be a pilot. No safety improvements will come from these 50 deaths that you both seem so concerned about until the FAA addresses low pilot pay and fatigue.
 

LazyLightnin'

Banned
Well-known member
Joined
Feb 28, 2009
Posts
1,019
Total Time
.
Brownbone, stop being a puss and come out and say what it is you really think.
 

fifinella

Active member
Joined
May 7, 2008
Posts
43
Total Time
+
Both you and SEVEN are totally missing the point. Why were these pilots in this cockpit in the first place?

You know why I would never put my loved ones on a regional airline? Because of the lack of pay and poor quality of life that these pilots are faced with.

I know what its like to be overworked and underpaid. You make basic, silly mistakes. If you say that you would never make a basic mistake while fatigued you have never been fatigued.

I can't understand how other pilots who are working in terrible conditions can hang other pilots out to dry who were forced to work in terrible conditions.

No one has even mentioned that the SIC was suffering from some kind of inner ear condition. Way to stand up for each other guys.

Again I am ashamed to be a pilot. No safety improvements will come from these 50 deaths that you both seem so concerned about until the FAA addresses low pilot pay and fatigue.
The industry is what it is.....and everyone one of us knows what we are getting into. There needs to be significant improvements across the board. We all know this.

However, low pay, poor work rules, weak managment did not make or force these pilots violate sterile cockpit, lose complete situational awareness, and stall the plane.

We can come up with all the excuses in the world for the crew but in the end, it wasn't the poor state of the industry that killed 50 people - it was two operators letting the airplane stall and die.

Bushwickbill, take care and fly safe.
 

CopilotDoug

Captain of Industry
Joined
Feb 16, 2006
Posts
2,644
Total Time
Done!
I can't understand how other pilots who are working in terrible conditions can hang other pilots out to dry who were forced to work in terrible conditions.
Apparently the conditions which you speak of aren't so terrible. They accepted the job, right? Who twisted their arm? Are they restricted to only working inside a cockpit? I don't buy this "But you don't understand...they're FORCING me to do this!"

That's a bullsh-t, cop out excuse...and it indicates a WEAK pilot.

Stand up for yourselves, you might save alot of people.

No one has even mentioned that the SIC was suffering from some kind of inner ear condition. Way to stand up for each other guys.
And that's HER responsibility to address. Not her coworkers...not the company. Poor decisions were made, but you get what you pay for, right?
 

Fly91

Registered Pilot
Joined
Jul 31, 2008
Posts
635
Total Time
lots
Funny thread.

These kinds of pilots don't think about responsibility, they're just happy to have a job that they know they have no skills or business having. This is nothing new, the hiring of terribly unqualified and inexperienced pilots to sit in the cockpit and hopefully get the job the done.....is the airline way here in America.

The airlines and the unions crashed that plane. The pilots were just the puppets in all of this.
 

PeanuckleCRJ

Hurrrrrrrr
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Posts
1,684
Total Time
mucho
The airlines and the unions crashed that plane. The pilots were just the puppets in all of this.

You're a moron... the union had zero to do with this crash since the union wasn't in effect during the accident time period.

I do agree with your assertion on the airlines. However to blame the union in any way is pure ignorance.
 

rondo

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 15, 2007
Posts
141
Total Time
some
Marvin seems to stutter a lot in the CVR. Is this the way he speaks (hesitantly) or was he enamoured with the female?
Yeah, reading the CVR was very disturbing. Neither sounded like they had their "A" game on. If that what's going on at the regionals its a surprise there's not more accidents.
 

FO 4 Life

2 Mai Tai minimum
Joined
Aug 5, 2003
Posts
347
Total Time
5:00
To me the most disturbing is this:

22:16:37.1
HOT-2
I put the flaps up.

Anybody know if that's normal shaker recovery for the Q? CVR didn't record Marvin asking for that, just wondering.
 

HalinTexas

昇る太陽の土&#
Joined
Feb 14, 2004
Posts
1,536
Total Time
10000+
To me the most disturbing is this:

22:16:37.1
HOT-2
I put the flaps up.

Anybody know if that's normal shaker recovery for the Q? CVR didn't record Marvin asking for that, just wondering.
I noticed that too. Pretty screwed up.
 

solpilot

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Posts
69
Total Time
6000+
The problem with paying pilots so little is...you get what you pay for. It's a calculated risk the regional airlines are obviously willing to take.
 

StopNTSing

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 16, 2003
Posts
715
Total Time
9500+
Bottom Line: Both pilots were WAY out of their league flying this aircraft. The only question is: Why were they there in the first place? Lot's of changes to come at Colgan Air. This can't happen again. A total lack of experience, maturity, and professionalism in that aircraft that day. Sad to see all the family members affected by this needless crash.
It's not the first, nor will it be the last. Anyone remember the Eagle J32 about fifteen years ago that crashed on approach because the captain thought (erroneously) he lost an engine and became too distracted? The one that spawned the Pilot Records Improvement Act? In hindsight that captain was an accident waiting to happen. This is life at the regionals. The training, schedules, work rules, and management all suck and will never improve even when the spotlight is shown upon them. Congress, with all their righteous indignation, will pass more symbolic legislation that will have absolutely no effect on the problems. The media will trumpet it and then run to chase the next ambulance. And the beat goes on....


P.S. Former regional dude, here.
 

HA25

Tokyo Tokyo!
Joined
Dec 16, 2001
Posts
3,642
Total Time
>1
The problem with paying pilots so little is...you get what you pay for. It's a calculated risk the regional airlines are obviously willing to take.

Someone finally said what's probably on the tip of most peoples tongue.

Fact is, while they were hiring 1000 hour girls at Colgan, there were 1000s' of out of work 5000+ hour pilots with all kinds of experience... but would they work for $18/hr? not likely.
 
Top