Integration Day

[wolfpackpilot]

Side note to Pack: Seven times to China bro?

Plus 3 to Japan, 1 to Korea, Vietnam, Australia, Thailand. 2 times to India... But what do I know, Im just an arrogant Jet God.

For all you knuckle heads at NJA who think you've got this international thing in the bag... go ask the guys who came over here first and see what they tell ya. Im flying with one now and I know what he'll tell you.

 

[RNObased]

Plus 3 to Japan, 1 to Korea, Vietnam, Australia, Thailand. 2 times to India... But what do I know, Im just an arrogant Jet God.

For all you knuckle heads at NJA who think you've got this international thing in the bag... go ask the guys who came over here first and see what they tell ya. Im flying with one now and I know what he'll tell you.

Name calling Wolf?? Nice..

Most of us realize that there is more to flying to some of the places you guys fly, then just strapping on the jet and going. If someone doesn't realize that then they aren't very bright. However it isn't rock science.

Personally if I ever came over there I would want and need the experience you guys have to offer in training me, but then again I like keeping my ticket.

 

[CastofThousands]

Plus 3 to Japan, 1 to Korea, Vietnam, Australia, Thailand. 2 times to India... But what do I know, Im just an arrogant Jet God.

For all you knuckle heads at NJA who think you've got this international thing in the bag... go ask the guys who came over here first and see what they tell ya. Im flying with one now and I know what he'll tell you.

YGBSM - With the right company, training, standards, and crew environment, it's all pilot sh!t. It certainly requires additional training, but many have done it before you, and many will do it after you (speaking from experience). You'll get people's attention when you show up for duty in a NASA jumpsuit (one way of the other). Until then, it's still pants on one leg at a time.

Come on back down to earth before you poke someone's eye out. I'd rather hear what a true pilot has to say about the worlds BEvERages than, how great they are. I'll buy if you want waste the time. Real pilots do it all while getting intercepted and/or shot at - I'll be the first to say I'm not one of 'em. I'm just a guy who moves heavy equipment from one place to another for a pay check and loves play time.

Respectfully,

 

[niteflyr]

Where does the assumption we all crawled out of a Piper Navajo and into an Ultra at NJA come from? There is a huge spread of experience, yes even international, on the NJA side. Just because it wasn't in a gulfstream does not mean no one here has done it. Converting Meters and QFE? You have got to be kidding me, please hold my hand while I figure this out. Only version 4.2? Oh no, try it with version 0.0, or also called the original INS. Get over yourselves!

 

[imacdog]

Wow Wolf, my simple question invoked that type of response from you? Impressive that you were born into a Gulfstream. It's not like you came from the ranks of places like Midway and Comair, or is it? Certainly someone with that type of background is simply incapable of learning international flying, as you allude to.

 

[YankeeEcho]

Dues are 1.5% of gross wages. That with per diem differences between actual paid and IRS allowance will give you the 2% required for business deductions, so you won't really notice it.

Explain this? . . . . .

 

[CL60]

Training?

All due respect to the viewpoints here, I can understand Wolf's frustration. In the past, you had to have the international experience before getting the keys.

As for the training--it definitely doesn't cover what you learn from experience and its very distracting when flying with someone who obviously doesn't have it. Some don't mind instructing on the road but others will have higher expectations.

 

[imacdog]

No matter what their feelings, they will have to accept the idea that NJA pilots will be flying with them in the near future, and being professionals involves casting aside ego and learning to work together. I doubt this will be a problem as all the NJI pilots I have met on the road have been very nice. There are always exceptions though (on both sides).

 

[Semore Butts]

I think I can hang Wolf.

A year in Afghanistan (1 in Iraq before that) flying to every "Stan" you can think off.

I know what "real mountains", "weird" altimeter settings, and people very "strange" to me are about.

Did all our flight planning and DIP clearances by ourselves.

Oh yeah...In an Ultra.

I'm sure you are seeing that NJA pilots are capable of integrating into the Gulfstreams and learning the international ropes just like you did when you started there.

You won't be seeing me, I'll be happy in the Hawker fleet.

I have seen all of the foreign lands I care too.

We'll all get along just fine I'm sure.

Jeez! The sh!t we pick to argue about????

Take care, and I'm looking forward to you joining the "Team".

Yes Team. If you guys are as "sh!t hot" as I'm hearing you say, you will a welcome addition to our membership.

Don't read into my statements, I sincerely think you guys will be an asset to us all.

 

[soccer.1860]

In the Military Heavy world after 1500 hours total time you are worldwide qualified as a PIC. This include locals such as Iraq, Afghanistan, Africa, S.E. Asia, etc...

 

[Pervis]

Explain this? . . . . .

For business expenses to be deductible, they must be at least 2% of you adjusted gross income. Our domestic per diem is $40.80/day, and international is $60.00/day. Both are well under what uncle sam allows for daily per diem in most if not all locations. The per diem calculations net me at least $600/yr off my federal tax obligation. Not as much as dues, but those reduce my fed tax as well.

 

[G200_PILOT]

For all you knuckle heads at NJA who think you've got this international thing in the bag... go ask the guys who came over here first and see what they tell ya. Im flying with one now and I know what he'll tell you.

Go back and quote me where I said that I had it in the bag already. I'm looking forward to the opportunity to learn new things. If I came across like all I needed was a little bit of ground school, I apologize. I am well aware that doing it from the right seat a few times first is the only way to do it. My whole issue here is that some of you... you included after this comment Wolf, think that you're some kind of special gift. I can assure you that I can learn something new just as fast if not faster than you can. Oh... and so can't all of my other Union brothers and sisters at NJA!

 

[ozpilot]

So integration offers NJI pilots a seniority list based on date of hire and fences for pay,seat and aircraft.

They also obtain some nice extras per the hard fought NJA pilots contract such as hourly OT, extended days that are not impacted by sick days taken, after midnights, the option of an 18 day schedule for more pay etc etc. And of course they all come under the protection of the union.

I know this is going to come across as a flame, but I'll ask the question anyway.

What do the pilots of NJA get out of this deal? People tell me its about scope, but thats a week argument in my opinion. The operations of both company's are very different. It hard for me to believe that the 300 pilots of NJI could ever be a threat to the 3000 pilots of NJA.

During the long dark days leading up to the 2005 contract did the company use the NJI pilots to whipsaw the NJA pilots?. No.

If scope is the argument we should be more concerned about the pilots of EJM.

Flame away.

 

[gutshotdraw]

About $450,000 a year in NJASAP's bank account.

300 pilots X average salary $100,000 = $30,000,000

$30,000,000 X 1.5% dues (or agency fee)= $450,000

 

[NJAPLT]

So integration offers NJI pilots a seniority list based on date of hire and fences for pay,seat and aircraft.

I think overall the NJI pilots make out like bandits under the current LOA. They get union protection and all the benefits that go along with our contract, and they get to keep their better pay and g4 to g5 fence (for captains). The NJI FO's will probably get to hold a captain position sooner than they would if the programs were kept apart. (True, not in a G4, but a Citation V captain at NJA makes more pay than I guess they make as a FO right now on a G4 or G5.)

NJA pilots get Scope, and a few G4/G5 slots as the NJI pilots move to other planes or retire. We also get rid of the potential to whipsaw us in the future with NJI. A contract means nothing without scope, ask mesa-freedom, TSA/Go Jets, any major and their "express" carriers.

I understand the fear of change on both sides of NetJets, and the conjecture on what will happen with the integration. Lots of wounds still exists from the actions of both sides of the NetJets pilot group before the 2005 CBA, and won't be quickly forgotten by either party. I'm sure if I check I will find a percentage of NJA pilots who want DOH back dues paid by NJI pilots, or a stapled to the bottom seniority list, but that is not fair in my opinion. I also don't believe that the LOA G5 captain fence is fair.

The current LOA is what it is, no mater what any individual NJA or NJI pilot feels about it. If the company and the union both want to change the LOA they will make a new agreement, otherwise this will be the rules the integration occurs under.

 

[RTRHD]

Only version 4.2? Oh no, try it with version 0.0, or also called the original INS. Get over yourselves!

You know I did the INS only thing also and remember the VLF with 9 waypoints. It was almost easier back then. Now everybody has dozens of FMS departures,arrivals,transitions and approaches . Top it off with a EFB from hell language difficulties and weather. All I am trying to say here it's a PAIN IN THE BUTT.

 

[fischman]

You won't be seeing me, I'll be happy in the Hawker fleet.

All the cool kids are going to the XL/XLS.
Finchy and I are looking forward to flying with you. :beer:

 

[ozpilot]

About $450,000 a year in NJASAP's bank account.

300 pilots X average salary $100,000 = $30,000,000

$30,000,000 X 1.5% dues (or agency fee)= $450,000

I'm not sure how this benefits the NJA pilots. Yes the annual dues go up by 10% but so do the number of pilots. After integration NJI pilots will pay the same dues, and receive the same representation as the NJA pilots.

The mantra of SU, 1108 and now NJASAP has always been the pilots are the union. I fully understand the concerns of an NJI pilot regarding union representation but I ask you to look at how far the pilots of NJA have advanced with the current union. All those benefits will be inherited by the NJI pilots after integration.

Our union is like none other in the aviation industry. I'm proud of what we have achieved. I suspect the pilots of NJI are going to find their dues represent money well spent.

 

[gutshotdraw]

I'm not sure how this benefits the NJA pilots.

The Golden Rule: He who has the gold, makes the rules. I was merely stating a fact in answer to your question. And, by the way, it will be closer to $500,000.

 

[old*art]

I am with Semore ... it makes me tired just to look at a G. Ever see those folks who fall out of a V at TEB with eyes that look like the red routes on a mountain road map ? Eyes that feel like holes burned in a blanket sound familiar ? First time I ever saw a G I thought - you want to go international in THAT little thing ? And I also got the international flying out of my system a LONG time ago .. ever heard of Vadahti Iran ? Try finding that in the mountains at night without a GPS and taxiing with those old black smudge pots for taxiway lights. Or a real NDB approach into Rio or Addis with thunderstorms and the needles looking like vacuum windshield wipers. (Do you know the only thing worse than having one ADF ? Having two !!) And a restful night at the HOS in Recife - a dollar to anyone old enough to remember that! (Is that a REAL pig ? I wish that parrot would stop spitting seeds in my plate !) Where do I turn in my passport ? Ok that's my "mine is bigger than yours" story. But I worry more what future CEOs at NJ will do if the scope is not sewed up - not so much the present ones. Look at what Ron Allen was able to do to Delta.
As to the NJI pilots, I was as rabidly anti union as anyone before coming to NJ and saw nothing to change my mind until that incredible group of young folks took it over and finally got us away from Teamsters. I will have to admit I am going to miss the magazine. It was fun reading all the indictments in the court ordered list in the back of the magazine each month - and it made a good fire starter in the winter. As to what its like being in this union, as Delmar said "come on in boys, the water's fine !". Warts and all.