Informational Stapling Compass to Delta Website

[flyboyike]

it burns me to read this.....as an XJ pilot, I think great now that Delta took over Delta, there is one more main line carrier that I cannot get a job at unless I wait years and years for the phantom flow (historically NWA did not hire that many XJ pilots, and the flow....lets be real, flows sound good but mainline has to hire hundreds if not thousands in order for it to get down the list at XJ-so its a very dim light at the end of our long tunnel)

That's one of the reasons I've never considered flow-trough (real or imagined) as much of a motivator. These things tend to not materialize.

 

[RedRum]

I agree

Those seats never belonged to Compass pilots in the first place.

Resolutions should be based solely on recapturing ALL outsourced flying starting with the EMB175. If that includes bringing Compass pilots on to our Delta list then I see no problem. But no sacrifices should be made on behalf of the Delta pilot group. Our priority is to recapture our flying not to hand out seniority numbers.

I completely agree with you on this statement.

The problem I see with opening up this resolution to debate and then subsequently trying to negotiate is that we are giving away negotiating capital for a benefit we, as Delta pilots, already have.

If we want to open up debate on recapturing this flying, why don't we wait until contract openers in 2012? What is the rush? Why are we trying to protect the jobs of pilots who knew what they were getting in to in the first place.

I recommend staying with the staus quo until we open the contract up in 2012. Anything we want Delta to do for us is valuable negotiating capital and it should not be squandered.

 

[mynameisjim]

If we want to open up debate on recapturing this flying, why don't we wait until contract openers in 2012? What is the rush? Why are we trying to protect the jobs of pilots who knew what they were getting in to in the first place.

I recommend staying with the staus quo until we open the contract up in 2012. Anything we want Delta to do for us is valuable negotiating capital and it should not be squandered.

The trouble is, it doesn't seem like the Delta MEC is going to maintain the status quo until 2012. It is/was on the March 31st agenda to 'reevaluate' the Compass representation structure. I think that means removal.

It's my understanding that the resolution does many things. First, it shows the MEC that pilots are tired of outsourcing. Second, it shows Delta that pilots are tired of outsourcing. Third, it tells the MEC that pushing Compass out of the MEC is not a good idea right now (unless it is shown that is what the majority wants, at this point we don't know).

As a Compass pilot, my goal is not to be given a Delta seniority number. My goal is for my airplane to be a Delta plane flown by Delta and Delta pilots. I would like to be a Delta pilot someday, and if the Delta MEC keeps outsourcing jobs I never can be.

 

[xjhawk]

So I laughed reading all this, oh and by the way I do not taunt Compass pilots. i think rather highly of the ones i know. I am indifferent to the rest, as am I to the rest of pilot I do not know. I am not one to judge a pilot group, just individuals. But I do think if they get the flow, its a good start. But still think the line between mainline and wholly owned regional is crap-and I can have that opinion. I do ask, what ever happened to when mainline bought another airline, they were a part of that airline....not just a wholly owned. For those of you that had a good laugh at my posting after my few beers....keep looking, it might happen again....lol take it easy...and I wil say again....I hold no ill will towards Compass (or Pinnacle or Comair or whatever) we are all in this together.....

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

xjhawk, Compass already has a flow- they have the most fluid flow (up and down) of any airline pairing in existance.... all pilots are entitled to a certain % of newhire slots after they reach their 30 months. Many have and are just waiting on us to begin hiring again (any bets when that will actually happen??)


I agree with you in regards to wholly owneds... I'd much prefer all just be brought on board, with even more preference to total brand scope. The logistics of this will not be available until section 6 is opened up again, but we have to be prepared and ready to go.

 

[Smarta$$]

That appears to be what's happening here with CPZ, but a lot of the reasoning is scary, insulting and simply not trustable. I simply don't trust that this is just the first step. If the 76 jets are worthy... then all the DCI seats should be worthy... all the way to the Saab 340. Brand scope is the answer.

This is exactly what I am saying. Prove me wrong.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

There are other reasons for it, but I personally think that we may get burned by them as we have with other scope issues.

 

[Rommel]

First and Foremost Compass Pilots are greatful to the be part of the Delta MEC. Compass was created at a point where management had their pilots by the balls. There are a few fNWA furloughs that took the option of flying at Compass. The rest of the list at Compass had no vote in the creation of Compass. Compass is not, I repeat Comair, ASA Skywest, Mesa. Compass was an alter ego company created in bankruptcy.

Compass have been represented by the NWA MEC, now as part of the merger we are represented by the new Delta MEC. We pay our dues to OUR MEC as the same as Every DELTA PILOT.

No one here are compass is trying to get a senority grab and but ourselved ahead of our furloughed pilots.

What can happen is a slotted senority number, that at least allows pilots the ability to flow with longevity. Pay may be a part of that it may not.... thats up to the negoitiators to work out. But it is possible to create a fence to the Compass pilots that if we issue senority numbers at the BOTTOM of the list and since we are locked into Compass for 30 we are not a threat to our brothers at Delta. XJT has a different flow system than that of Compass. XJT has protections built into their flow by only allowing flow downs only to the number that flowed up. At Compass its a different flow, The whole list can be flushed at a rate of 20 per month till all seats are filled.

Compass pilots are looking to REMAIN part of the Family, not getting kicked out. Thats the foundation to all of this first and foremost. A united front is better. A UNIFIED front is best. We share the same vision that these seats and aircraft belong to mainline pilots.

Compass aircraft are different than that of RP we are at 89,000 pound aircraft, 4000#s more than RP are Cert for. so there is an argument to scope. however the 3:1 ratio is something that would have to be looked at later.

Lets not put the cart infront of the horse.

First we need to:

1 Keep Compass within the MEC

2.Look into the senority issue(again no one would argue about being at the Bottom with a mainline senority number)

3 Scope and get these planes back to mainline where they belong. In Canada these are mainline aircraft.


Taking it back was our Union's Motto

Well it has to start somewhere!

 

[Fly4hire]

Rommel, A slotted number is a possible interim solution between while other Scope issues are resolved. Unlike the other DCI's you were hired with the intent to flow to NWA (sorry XJ - you were not) and were told at the time you'd be there before any new hires (when NWA had pilots on furlough)

The recall and hiring there caught everyone by suprise, and I understand the frustration at watching XJ flow in ahead of you as well as being locked out while NWA hired.

As you also touched upon, without resolving the larger issue of 76 seat Scope limits, and a true 100 seat replacement, bringing CPZ on board could hurt more than help.

Keeping CPZ on the MEC is the first step towards the eventual resolution of outsourcing and recapture of mainline flying.

 

[hockeypilot44]

There are other reasons for it, but I personally think that we may get burned by them as we have with other scope issues.

This is why I am quietly against this staple. I do not trust management. They have much better lawyers than we do. We end up on the losing end of everything we do. Even when we win, we lose. That being said, how much further can we allow scope to go. US Airways drew the line at EMB 190's. It seems with JetBlue and US Airways both flying them, that is where the line has been drawn for now.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Hey guys here's a reality check for ya all. If we are bringing the E175 to mainline, it will only be to pressure Bombardier, airbus, or boeing to give us a break on the narrowbody replacement. If a minuscule number of pilots at compass get a windfall they're eventually going to get anyway, it will be a small price to pay. You guys are NOT getting any scope back regardless of the outcome.

 

[michael707767]

While I am for trying to take back scope, I am against trying to put the Compass flying and pilots at the mainline. Until we change scope, there would be nothing preventing the company from selling those airplanes and furloughing the pilots. That or the extra aircraft that are now at the mainline will mean they are allowed more 76 seat RJs. I am not willing to give them three more 76 seaters for every one 76 seater we put on the mainline.

Scope needs to be addressed first. Then and only then can we look into bringing the Compass folks over to Delta.

 

[MasterOfPuppets]

Was the resolution presented at the meeting? What was the reaction? Was there apparent support?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Fact is that there are only 32 aircraft left to hit the 255. It is a total of 70 and 76 seat aircraft. If they want to add more 76 seat jets after these 32 they will need to park 70's. Not sure they are going to do this to get six more seats.

 

[FDJ2]

Was the resolution presented at the meeting? What was the reaction? Was there apparent support?

Which meeting?