Info for NJI

[Pervis]

Hey folks, just got some info from the NJA Negotiating Committee Chairman that NJI folks should know about. How you interpret this is your concern. I would, however, consider this factual. This is informational only, so don't shoot the messenger.

During the recently concluded negotiations, specifically during the NJA/NJI discussions, Local 1108 offered seniority integration for the two groups strictly by date of hire-across the board. The company refused this offer outright.

The future is clear-there will be integration. Although many have voiced opinions regarding union membership in a negative way, at least on this board, the choice is yours. For all of our sake, joining the frey before the three year waiting period is over would be to everyone's advantage, especially NJI pilots.

 

[DO-82 driver]

You mean RTS sold out the NJI guys?????!!!!!!!!!........

He would never do that!!!!!! That's not honorable.

 

[Pervis]

A few more observations, IMHO. Company will wait till there is no choice, and tell NJI folks that it was the big bad union's fault if seniority integration is lopsided. Typical disinformation. While some are truely against unionizing, others are reluctant to be heard in favor of due to possible management retribution. For those pilots, keep in mind the union has been very successful in gaining the positions back for those wrongfully terminated. Although there are no guarantees, life's a gamble in all aspects. One thing is certain. Joining the group before a forced integration is far more desirable for those being integrated. No threat intended here, just a fact of life. Personally, I hope for an equitable merge for all concerned.

 

[RustyFan]

Just an "Old Farts" 2 cents

During the recently concluded negotiations, specifically during the NJA/NJI discussions, Local 1108 offered seniority integration for the two groups strictly by date of hire-across the board. The company refused this offer outright.

For all of our sake, joining the frey before the three year waiting period is over would be to everyone's advantage, especially NJI pilots.

• Why are your negotiators talking to the company? Shouldn’t they be talking to the NJI pilots?

• I for one could care less, I’m on the down hill slide and no matter what happens it wont affect my bottom line. However I would never vote for anything that would displace the newest new hire from NJI from upgrading in the Gulfstreams. That was his “career expectation” when he was hired, it’s what he was hired for, and it is what his experience demanded when he was hired. When the last guy hired prior to your contract goes to the left seat, do what you want. But placing him behind some 25 year old ultra driver who couldn’t find 30W on a map just because he is on a teamster seniority list is wrong and wont happen. What about the 25-30% of our group who came from NJA in the 1st place? Do they get their “old” seniority number back?

• Many of the NJA pilots who spout off all the time about how easy International Flying is are obviously the ones who have never done it. No, you don’t have to be an astronaut to get there, but it takes experience, and that’s why NJI has always hired a proper ratio of pilots. For everyone 1 guy that came in with little to no international experience, and no G-time; they hired 3 or 4 that did. Experience requirements in the cockpit will never change, regardless of what any union says or threatens. The owners won’t accept it, the industry won’t accept it.

 

[Diesel]

arrrgh i hate it when i have to retype posts.

International flying isn't hard. Make sure you've done you're homework, be prepared and be ready for language barriers which can be eased by learning a few words.

30W is a joke. Trying to make 50W at cruise is the tough part departing out of CYQX. Of course i do enjoy the free icecream at 3am there though.

By the way isn't MGD the champagne of beers? Ricky Craven is a true competetor until he hit the wall.

 

[batsky2000]

Rusty,
You hit the nail on the head HARD, I am still an FO here and I came here to fly the Gulfstreams, and to upgrade here on the Gulfstreams, not get Date of Hire, which sounds nice, but that would give me/us nothing, if you want to give date of hire and protection on the Gulfstreams for current NJI pilots here before signing then ok, but to be thrown out of the Gulfstream is wrong, like Rusty said, my expectation was to upgrade in the Gulfstream, maybe you could build a clause that if I bid out of the Gulfstream then I go to where I would be on a combined list, but if I elect to stay in the Gulfstream, then I upgrade as if we were a seperate company

That sounds fair

 

[DO-82 driver]

Rusty Fan......who said you have a VOTE in the matter?

You will do as told by your Boss.....look at all the input you guys had in the cross over agreement.

Please don't try and make what you do as some great mystery. Its not!!!!
Who knows...you may even learn something from some of our X and Falcon guys.

Batsky....who said anything about getting thrown out? That would never happen. It wouldn't financially feasible for the Company to do that. Seniority would dictate upgrades.....plain and simple. Years ago the Boss man said the two companies would merge......Now he's being froced to honor his word. Your beef should be with him.

 

[Diesel]

and yes before you reply they let us cruise by 50W instead of KOBEV or DENDU because they know it's a short climb.

I believe this is fair i don't know if you agree.

If you're an FO in a gulfstream then everyone who is an FO get's to upgrade IN a gulfstream. You're right they are hired there.

The company did agree to the 1/3 pilot merge though but i do believe the FO's in the plane should get the chance to upgrade. It would ease the bad blood that would last for years.

Problem is who is talking for the NJI pilots? The company who is looking out for their own best interests. (this is not ment to be a union vs non union argument) just pointing out where is the "voice" of NJI coming from so that the company understands what they want.

Talk amongst yourselves.

 

[Correcting]

• Why are your negotiators talking to the company? Shouldn’t they be talking to the NJI pilots?

Uh, no. They don't represent NJI. They represent NJA. You want them to talk to you, then send in your union cards. Right now, without union representation, the NJI pilots can do nothing but sit back and watch their futures be decided by others.

 

[DO-82 driver]

As proven by the last days of negotiations prior to the T/A coming out.

I'd be curioous what RTS told you guys at that luncheon in SAV.

 

[WGFP48]

As proven by the last days of negotiations prior to the T/A coming out.

I'd be curioous what RTS told you guys at that luncheon in SAV.

Well you guys hung your hat on what he told you years ago...now we plan to hang our hat on what he has told us will happen...it's just that what the union thinks is one thing and what NJI is getting will be something else...Happy Holidays

 

[Diesel]

Do you honestly think if anything was told in SAV that it wouldn't be out now. With the internet and everything else out there plus of all the people that we all know on both sides of the companies NOTHING has come out about the SAV meeting.

As was proven when RTS tried to back out of the deal his world came crashing down. So to keep the company running he sold out NJI.

 

[WGFP48]

Do you honestly think if anything was told in SAV that it wouldn't be out now. With the internet and everything else out there plus of all the people that we all know on both sides of the companies NOTHING has come out about the SAV meeting.

As was proven when RTS tried to back out of the deal his world came crashing down. So to keep the company running he sold out NJI.

There are always 2 sides...maybe...he sold out the union?? Stay tuned.

 

[Diesel]

Oh i'll stay tunned but it really doesn't matter much. I've got my workrules and scope in writing. He tried to get out of making a deal for NJi and the pilot group responded so hard that he had to come back to CMH to sign the deal.

Spin off the gulfstreams, sell them, or fold them into NJA it doesn't really matter in my life.

Now if I was at NJI I'd be more worried if any of the above happened. Because if you get sold off or spun off now you're dealing with a whole new boss and company.

The FO's just got a couple of years added to the upgrade times because RTS made a 1 for 3 deal. That's what I'd be ticked about.

 

[MasterOfYaw]

Beating a dead horse here, but here’s my $.02 on the international flying/aircraft experience issue. It’s not rocket science, but you need to be totally comfortable in flying your aircraft and have a bag of tricks (which only comes with some experience and a lot of hangar flying). I’m not speaking of Europe or the islands here. If, on the “they’re trying to kill/violate me scale,” the US is a 1, Europe and Central America are 2s, Africa, parts of Asia and S. America in the Andes are 10’s. You will be vectored into mountains by ATC. You will have tense moments above countries that don’t like us (“say again you’re call sign is NOVEMBER 234 XX”). You will fly routes no one in the company has ever flown before. You will haggle over clearances and basic ground services. You may tanker fuel into airports over 10,000’ where you’re landing ref is only a few knots below tire speed, or have to deal with QFE in the mountains. You may be denied entrance to airspace you have an over-flight permit for. You will be asked to do these things after spending the last six months doing nothing but PBI-TEB. Again, not rocket science, not unsafe, but you need to know your way around Jepp vol 1, have some haggling skills, and always have a plan B. I would have considered myself unsafe if I was asked to do these things as PIC just a few months after typing in any aircraft, despite 8 yrs of Navy flying that was ¾ outside CONUS.

On the integration issue, I’m trying to stay positive. I’ve read the briefs on several single carrier petitions, both successful and unsuccessful. While I think the deck is stacked against separate pilot groups at the moment, it is my opinion that a successful single carrier petition is by no means a sure thing. A lot could also change in 3 years to un-stack the deck. If integration happens and the NJI pilot group has a say, I hope and believe we won’t throw the FO’s under the bus.

 

[RTRHD]

Oh i'll stay tunned but it really doesn't matter much. I've got my workrules and scope in writing. He tried to get out of making a deal for NJi and the pilot group responded so hard that he had to come back to CMH to sign the deal.

Spin off the gulfstreams, sell them, or fold them into NJA it doesn't really matter in my life.

Now if I was at NJI I'd be more worried if any of the above happened. Because if you get sold off or spun off now you're dealing with a whole new boss and company.

The FO's just got a couple of years added to the upgrade times because RTS made a 1 for 3 deal. That's what I'd be ticked about.

Just wait and see............"O" and read your contract.

 

[NJANJIFLEXFLOP]

As the NetJet World turns "Take 999"

I have sat back and read this debacle go on and on. It happens in short segments, kinda like a sit com. It always comes back to who has the highest senority, who flies the aircraft that no one else cant fly, who flies internationally where no one else had gone before....this is BULL$h*t. I think that the biggest thing to worry about is how in the world that Netjets is going to survive with the payincreases, fuel price increases, silly aircraft groundings, fake tipping and then putting it on your expense account (I know this goes on I have talked to several who do it), and mainly customers/owners going elsewhere with their travel needs.
Who cares who flies what? Who cares who flies where? We all have 7 on 7 off, the pay is much better ( I dare any of the NJI or Class 4 guys to bark about this), our 401k is great and much more the guy who owns us is #2 in the World and #1 in the World is on his finacial board. If we all keep fighting, generating bad blood, costing the company more and more in money......You too will be able to by fine antiques with NETJETS on them. Kinda like Pan Am, Eastern, etc etc.
Quit the bickering, help out your brother/sister co worker get the job done and keep NETJETS as a house hold name for these rich folks who keep us out of rickety old cargo airplanes. (Not to mention in nice hotels on sunny beaches, or ski lodges, or exotic countries for that matter.
"CAN'T WE ALL GET ALONG"
Now all you who are steaming at the collar because I took the wind out of this sail run along and make the customers happy.....because if you dont you will be making alot of hits on the "jobs" or "hiring" section of this website. Trust me ....if you dont...you will only bring down the company that buys your childrens college educations, your fancy homes, your sail boats, your Harley's yady yady yady....No to mention have your Company make the front page of SEVERAL news papers!!!

 

[Pervis]

Type of flying and experience is moot. We've all accumulated a vast amount of experience, some of us military and civilian, domestic and international. Any cockpit will have one experienced crewmember on board with current company experience.

Threats about promises and wait and see attitudes won't do anything either. Promises made and kept are two different things. The only point I'm trying to make is we need to approach this in an intelligent manner-together. The union is willing to discuss this with any and all NJI pilots, and I believe it would be in your best interest to do just that.

The reason the union negotiated with company about this is because it is an agreement between Netjets Inc. and the local 1108. NJI has no say in this without representation, short of finding other gainful employment. Join us and we all work together towards a common goal. Believe it or not, most of us are all for a fair integration, but acting like a stooge for RTS will not gain much for the G force.

 

[Diesel]

The Section 1.3 on the new contract alone was enough to vote YES. Without scope everything else is crap.

 

[DO-82 driver]

RTRHD,

Here's a chance to validate yourself. Can you site specifically in our contract what is sooooo damning? I even doubt you have read the thing.

I eagerly await your great revelation.......