India is DESPERATE!!!

[AC560]

and your odds go from 10% to a 90% chance at the rest of the Major Airline jobs.

Those statistics just show that the majority of people applying have degrees it doesn't show that the degree itself was a factor in the hiring. Spin the numbers the other way and 90% of the people who got rejected probably had a degree. You would need to know % of applicants with and without degrees and their respective acceptance/failure rates to determine if it was a factor.

Not saying it isn't important but it is less important then other things in my book.

I went to USNA and paid it back over 22 years of military service.

Thanks for your service.

 

[pilotyip]

AC560 I love it you are probably correct, 90% of the those being turned down have college degrees, which means you have only a 10% change of being turned down without a college degree. It is reality, but this is a pilot board you are not suppose to deal in reality. From our company six pilots have interviewed at JB, three had degrees, three did not, 3 pilots were hired, one a degree two did not have a degrees. Two of the three hired had been 121 Check Airman. All of them had less than 10 years flying experience, less than 5 years in jets. Average age 35. These facts do not match your statement.

 

[Lear70]

So let me get this straight: you're saying that somehow the fact that 90% of the pilots hired by majors have degrees and 10% do not somehow isn't representative of whether the degree is a help or hindrance?

Did you actually GO to college and take a statistics course?

You can't possibly overlook the correlation between a 90% interview failure rate without the degree. I'd be willing to bet a c-note that, if we could possibly get the data, there would be less than a 10% variation between those numbers and the people who were even called for an interview.

 

[AC560]

So let me get this straight: you're saying that somehow the fact that 90% of the pilots hired by majors have degrees and 10% do not somehow isn't representative of whether the degree is a help or hindrance?

Statistically it doesn't prove anything it just says a lot of pilots have college degrees, not that it hurts or helps them in getting a job.

 

[Lear70]

*snicker*

OK... From a TECHNICAL standpoint, you're absolutely correct, it's not PROOF.

Statistically speaking, however, 90% is pretty difficult to ignore.

If you're an aspiring airline pilot, you'd be VERY foolish to ignore that high of a statistical probability that the degree makes a difference in getting the job.

 

[Scrapdog]

If you're an aspiring airline pilot, you'd be VERY foolish to ignore that high of a statistical probability that the degree makes a difference in getting the job.

Very well said Lear. Two points to consider that AC and Yip can't manage to grasp.

1. There is a reason why ALL the majors either require or "highly desire" 4 year degrees. They want someone who can be a leader with good cognitive skills. College is instrumental in building both of those traits. They don't want a lemming who can push buttons on the FMS and fly an ILS by ATP standards. A baboon in a pilot's uniform can do that. They want a guy in 10 years down the road will be a captain for them, and when the sh*t hits the fan or something nonstandard happens (emergency, medical issue, hijacking, etc...), that captain is quick on their feet and can think outside the box. College doesn't automatically do that for you, but it certainly helps whole heartedly in building those skill sets.

2. If you happen to get hurt and lose your medical, or if you have a life changing event where you can't fly anymore (and yes, we're all human), you're going to need that solid 4 year degree to get you competitive in today's world. Yeah, you can be a great instrument approach pilot and flip burgers after you lose your medical, or you can be a college grad, a leader, and if something tragic happens, be able to be a leader in the corporate field as well. And EVEN if it's been 20 years since graduating from college - THE COLLEGE DEGREE STILL HELPS!!!!!!!! (Yes Yip, that was aimed at you!)

 

[pilotyip]

lear70 I admitted to Bobbysans back in 2002 that a degree may help you get a job, but full time college will slow down your advancement to your first career position. So I have been advocating part time college ever since. BTW I even got an A in my Stat course during my Master's in Business Degree. So I understand Std Dev.

 

[TAWS]

Did somebody say something about jobs in Indiana?

 

[Lear70]

lear70 I admitted to Bobbysans back in 2002 that a degree may help you get a job, but full time college will slow down your advancement to your first career position. So I have been advocating part time college ever since. BTW I even got an A in my Stat course during my Master's in Business Degree. So I understand Std Dev.

Oh, OK... I missed that one, my bad.

I gotcha now. Maybe we're closer on opinions for this than I thought.

:beer:

 

[pilotyip]

College good pilot? Leadership?

Scrappy, point one of your "college is a must to to be a real man". My heros the non-college educated pilots of WWII, faced situations that would make anything going on today look like a walk in the park. In th 8th AF 1942 1 of 8 survived a tour, in 1943 1 out 4 survived a tour, in 1944 3 out of 4 made it. So don't give me it takes a college degree to be a leader in the cockpit, to be able to handle "A main AC Bus A auto lock out"

 

[pilotyip]

Lear70, Really as I have said before have nothing a college degree. I just feel that full time college gets in the way of properly pursuing your career. It piles up debt you don't need, it limits your ability to build meaningful flight time, read MEL Turbine PIC. Just my view, if someone wants to go to college full to to learn to fly it is no skin off my nose. I just wouldn't do it.

 

[Andy]

i never said people don't try hard enough and i certainly don't consider myself lucky. i sepnt 3 years as a cfi makeing nothing, i flew jumpers for 5 bucks a load and the first regional i worked for paid 14,000 a year. so don't tell me im arogant. it took 13 uears to get to where i am at and it is only because i knew what i wanted. i knew i needed pic jet when i was at pdt and all the rgionals were getting rj's, i was just smart enough not by a car, house, boat etc and shack up with a FA while at a regional. I am no diff. then anybody here. evrybody complains about low pay crappy working conditions etc. at the regionals, the regionals are there for one thing and one thing only to give you experiance to move on. when i was at pdt we tried to fight, i picked up no ot, did nothing extra and it still didn't help so i realized what role the regional airline plays and just delat with it. Its not that hard trust me. everyone i started with got a job ata major, legacy, whatever you wan't to call it. If you wan't it baddly it will happen. if you complain about it you will get noware nothing.

Please, take this as a constructive criticism. Get some education. Your writing skills are on par with a junior high school student.

 

[AC560]

They don't want a lemming who can push buttons on the FMS and fly an ILS by ATP standards. A baboon in a pilot's uniform can do that. They want a guy in 10 years down the road will be a captain for them, and when the sh*t hits the fan or something nonstandard happens (emergency, medical issue, hijacking, etc...), that captain is quick on their feet and can think outside the box. College doesn't automatically do that for you, but it certainly helps whole heartedly in building those skill sets.

So given that is what they want which would provide that more, four years in the military leading men or a four year college degree? If I want a leader I am thinking the platoon leader back from Iraq might be a bit better at dealing with non-standard outside of the box then a guy who has a four year degree.

Issue isn't that college isn't important but that it isn't as important as people make it out to be. Certainly in the case of airline jobs it appears to me that any kind of military service is going to work better for you then college. Both in terms of developing leadership skills, getting money for training, and developing valuable contacts.

 

[nimtz]

Yip,

Wow I need to call in Bill O'Reilly, because I've never felt further from the 'No Spin Zone'. You missed your true calling. With your talent for analyzing statistics you should be working for the Bush Administration.

 

[pilotyip]

nimtz, how could youl tell. Why I have had professional precision spin training. Started in the T-34B, 2.5 turns, roll out within 10 degrees of heading. Then on to the mighty T-28B, that baby was a hand full on precision required, just make approximately two turns and get it out of spin before it tightened up.