First, I made 70k last year, on FO pay. Again, more than the avg family of four.
Must be year 3... I can't imagine how you'd do that on year 2 and it's impossible on 1st year.
I'm not getting rich, and don't expect to in this industry. I'm realistic. Let me next apologize if you took my comments to close to home. I was not trying to insult you personally. I do, however, think that most of the pilots in this industry, at majors, have lost touch with reality.
Thanks, and sorry if I came across a little aggressively.
I understand what you mean. A lot of people have gotten out of hand, and wanting $300k+ salaries a la' DAL/UAL pre-bankruptcy are, agreeably, sadly out of touch.
However, SWA has proven that their pay rates are sustainable. Our CASM is LOWER THAN THEIRS. I don't think it's unrealistic to try to bridge that gap between our salaries, do you?
Things like informational picketing do nothing but make us look like asses. The public does not CARE. They care about buying another Tahoe, and a new Louis Vuitton bag. They already think we make too much money, and their $89 flight costs to much. We will no garner sympathy, we will garner only resentment.
Amen, brother. I agree 100% on that. The public doesn't care, management doesn't care, it's an old ALPA play that doesn't work anymore.
I'm not suggesting that we should not be fairly compensated, or even that we should not make more money than we do now. I am suggesting a realistic approach to all of this, without the chest thumping, and "I'm a professional!" Acting in a professional manner should go without saying. It does NOT CHANGE YOUR JOB CLASSIFICATION!
That's what I was basically saying, just coming from a different direction. I know what I am, I know what I'm worth, and I don't need anyone else to tell me either one of them, much less the DOT try to artificially cap our wages by putting us in some kind of "bracket" for our profession.
I do think that you need to put down the NPA KoolAid and review some pay scales. We are not the lowest. Not the highest either. We all need to be careful of falling into the United/Delta mentality.
The NPA proposed pay rates are actually a LOT lower than I would accept on the F/O side. I think they're pretty close to realistic on the CA side, possibly a smidge less, but not much. They're just BARELY more than SWA F/O pay for our CA's. That's sad, seeing as, like I mentioned earlier, our CASM is lower and SWA can obviously continue to pay their pilots those salaries.
I don't want to bankrupty my employer; that does NO ONE any good. But, at the same time, if they can AFFORD to bring us closer to our peer group, I feel no remorse in asking for more pay.
As far as your comments about a majority; that's not what I said. I said many, meaning my own little non-scietific poll of people I fly with. And perhaps many was a poor choice of words. But, several have unreasonable and unrealistic wants and expectations. And as far as the NPA, almost no one I talk to is happy with them. I know I'm not.
I'm not exactly thrilled either, mainly in light of their actions over the holidays and immediately afterwards (age 65 increase without a pilot group polling, side letters, etc).
That said, they are the elected leaders. If anything, some of their contract goals are lower than I'd expect given the upswing of the aviation industry that's underway and the company's continued profitability. There's always going to be a few who want to be THE best paid in the industry, as well as the few who would sign for current book just to ensure their continued income stream. Everyone has their own needs from a contract.
As far as me being "right" or "wrong", too many people see too many things in black or white, neo-con or liberal, CNN or FOX, left or right, Ann Coulter or Michael Moore. There's a middle ground, a compromise, and I wish more people would focus on that in many aspects of life.
Agreed as well. This agreement will be a compromise, no doubt. I just hope it makes my career income and retirement goals, as I like the flying I do, the equipment I fly, and the people I fly with, and really don't want to start over somewhere just because I need a little more coin in the coffer.
Now, I invited you to leave because you post continuously on many threads what you can and can not accept from the position you currently hold. It seems it's about nothing but money to you. All that I was suggesting is that maybe you should chase it. Go where the money is. That apparantly will make you happy. I was offering an alternative, that's all. You say you came because of potential.....well, potential does not always realize itself. Maybe you should have gone for the sure thing (FedEx, CAL, UPS, etc)
All I really need from this place to make it "perfect" (or as close as you can get without being independently wealthy) is a better pay scale and better health care options.
It's obviously not "ALL" about the money, but it definitely is in the top 3 requirements of any job I take. Maybe it's further down other people's list,,,
And nothing is a "sure thing". FDX would actually be pretty cool, and it's the only company I still have an active application in at.
Sorry if I offended you...but this is not that bad of a place to work, and frankly, I'm tired of hearing that it is.
I never said it was a bad place to work. NEVER.
Go back and read some of my threads a little more closely. In every single one of them I talk about how much better this place is than where I came from, except for the money.
I think we're on a similar page, just maybe have a different idea of a good F/O rate.
Cheers. :beer:
