India is DESPERATE!!!

[atpcliff]

Hi!

My favorite channel in Mexico is Sony. My 10-year old loves CNN International-all he watched there was CNN-I and movies. I like YIP because I can get CBC. My favorite channel in YIP is actually Flight 26, which is an XM channel.

CLiff
YIP

PS-I heard that a 40+ year old flight school near the Twin Cities just closed the doors because of a lack of students!

 

[Lear70]

Don't you have to go and complain about how your company sucks or you don't make enough. see ya. looooooser

I can't BELIEVE someone like you made it through the SWA interview process.

Just goes to show how flawed it really is.

 

[Lear70]

First, I made 70k last year, on FO pay. Again, more than the avg family of four.

Must be year 3... I can't imagine how you'd do that on year 2 and it's impossible on 1st year.

I'm not getting rich, and don't expect to in this industry. I'm realistic. Let me next apologize if you took my comments to close to home. I was not trying to insult you personally. I do, however, think that most of the pilots in this industry, at majors, have lost touch with reality.

Thanks, and sorry if I came across a little aggressively.

I understand what you mean. A lot of people have gotten out of hand, and wanting $300k+ salaries a la' DAL/UAL pre-bankruptcy are, agreeably, sadly out of touch.

However, SWA has proven that their pay rates are sustainable. Our CASM is LOWER THAN THEIRS. I don't think it's unrealistic to try to bridge that gap between our salaries, do you?

Things like informational picketing do nothing but make us look like asses. The public does not CARE. They care about buying another Tahoe, and a new Louis Vuitton bag. They already think we make too much money, and their $89 flight costs to much. We will no garner sympathy, we will garner only resentment.

Amen, brother. I agree 100% on that. The public doesn't care, management doesn't care, it's an old ALPA play that doesn't work anymore.

I'm not suggesting that we should not be fairly compensated, or even that we should not make more money than we do now. I am suggesting a realistic approach to all of this, without the chest thumping, and "I'm a professional!" Acting in a professional manner should go without saying. It does NOT CHANGE YOUR JOB CLASSIFICATION!

That's what I was basically saying, just coming from a different direction. I know what I am, I know what I'm worth, and I don't need anyone else to tell me either one of them, much less the DOT try to artificially cap our wages by putting us in some kind of "bracket" for our profession.

I do think that you need to put down the NPA KoolAid and review some pay scales. We are not the lowest. Not the highest either. We all need to be careful of falling into the United/Delta mentality.

The NPA proposed pay rates are actually a LOT lower than I would accept on the F/O side. I think they're pretty close to realistic on the CA side, possibly a smidge less, but not much. They're just BARELY more than SWA F/O pay for our CA's. That's sad, seeing as, like I mentioned earlier, our CASM is lower and SWA can obviously continue to pay their pilots those salaries.

I don't want to bankrupty my employer; that does NO ONE any good. But, at the same time, if they can AFFORD to bring us closer to our peer group, I feel no remorse in asking for more pay.

As far as your comments about a majority; that's not what I said. I said many, meaning my own little non-scietific poll of people I fly with. And perhaps many was a poor choice of words. But, several have unreasonable and unrealistic wants and expectations. And as far as the NPA, almost no one I talk to is happy with them. I know I'm not.

I'm not exactly thrilled either, mainly in light of their actions over the holidays and immediately afterwards (age 65 increase without a pilot group polling, side letters, etc).

That said, they are the elected leaders. If anything, some of their contract goals are lower than I'd expect given the upswing of the aviation industry that's underway and the company's continued profitability. There's always going to be a few who want to be THE best paid in the industry, as well as the few who would sign for current book just to ensure their continued income stream. Everyone has their own needs from a contract.

As far as me being "right" or "wrong", too many people see too many things in black or white, neo-con or liberal, CNN or FOX, left or right, Ann Coulter or Michael Moore. There's a middle ground, a compromise, and I wish more people would focus on that in many aspects of life.

Agreed as well. This agreement will be a compromise, no doubt. I just hope it makes my career income and retirement goals, as I like the flying I do, the equipment I fly, and the people I fly with, and really don't want to start over somewhere just because I need a little more coin in the coffer.

Now, I invited you to leave because you post continuously on many threads what you can and can not accept from the position you currently hold. It seems it's about nothing but money to you. All that I was suggesting is that maybe you should chase it. Go where the money is. That apparantly will make you happy. I was offering an alternative, that's all. You say you came because of potential.....well, potential does not always realize itself. Maybe you should have gone for the sure thing (FedEx, CAL, UPS, etc)

All I really need from this place to make it "perfect" (or as close as you can get without being independently wealthy) is a better pay scale and better health care options.

It's obviously not "ALL" about the money, but it definitely is in the top 3 requirements of any job I take. Maybe it's further down other people's list,,,

And nothing is a "sure thing". FDX would actually be pretty cool, and it's the only company I still have an active application in at.

Sorry if I offended you...but this is not that bad of a place to work, and frankly, I'm tired of hearing that it is.

I never said it was a bad place to work. NEVER.

Go back and read some of my threads a little more closely. In every single one of them I talk about how much better this place is than where I came from, except for the money.

I think we're on a similar page, just maybe have a different idea of a good F/O rate.

Cheers. :beer:

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

I never said it was a bad place to work. NEVER.

Go back and read some of my threads a little more closely. In every single one of them I talk about how much better this place is than where I came from, except for the money.

I think we're on a similar page, just maybe have a different idea of a good F/O rate.

Cheers. :beer:

The comment about it "being a bad place to work" was not directed at you personally. That was a generic "I'm tired of hearing from people", not you in particular. Especially one's that just got done telling me they made $185,000 last year.

And I actually think we are closer than you think on pay issues, we just have different ideas of how to get there and whether or not it is realistic to expect it. And probably different reasons why we do or don't expect it.

So again, sorry if you thought I was getting personal. I'll buy you a beer if I ever figure out who you really are. :beer:

 

[WMUSIGPI]

This is getting out of hand. how do we work for nothing. I do not have a college degree and managed to work for a 121 regional for 65-70 g's as a capt. on a dash 8. Then i went to a fractional and upgraded in 1 year and make 91 g's and now after 10 years in aviation ( about the time it takes to finish medical school and residency) i got hired at SW, still no degree. I get to look forward to 15 days off everymonth and a kick a$$ compensation package. If i had stayed at the fractional i would have 14 days off every month and 2 blocks of 3 weeks off for vacation every year. don't tell me this industry sucks. Just don't get stuck at a commuter because you are lazy and everything works out. I could not have asked for a better career track.

Good for you... lucky you showed up at just the right time at just the right place.... I've been in this industry 8+ years and am just getting recalled to my FIRST REGIONAL job with less than ONE YEAR seniority. Granted I'm gambling that in one year I will be a captain here.... but that's 10+ YEARS to make REGIONAL captain......
Luck of the timing. I've got several friends that went to other compainies that are now in training at Continental, Airtran, Jetblue...ECT. Worst case, bypassed at Shuttle with Captain pay coming and top of the bidding for FO lines... I'm recalled with a class of 8 year FO's that have never before upgraded to captain guys.... that are finally going to have a shot at the left seat.... I can guarantee NONE of them expected to be FO's that long....

 

[Mach8Forest]

Don't you have to go and complain about how your company sucks or you don't make enough. see ya. looooooser

Thats Mr. Loooooooser to you and my current company does not suck. Your assumption about not being paid enough is correct though. I only came close to that once in my aviation career. I was at 14 year TWA captain pay and getting close to being comfortable and the rest is AA History.
SWA is a nice catch for such a short sighted and self-centered pilot. It appears their standards must be slipping. You sir keep the dream alive for those that struggle in school and want to take short cuts by not doing their homework (literally). If I was on Jeopardy and the category choices were,
(Well rounded individuals, NOT!)
(lack of EDUBICATION)
(Who you KNOW and Bl0W!)
(Toot my own horn!)
(I am so happy I’m Gaay!)
(My glass is half full because I am great)
(Goose is spelled with two o’s)
I believe my answer would be the same for all the categories.
ALEX WHO IS BRAVODUDE!

 

[F16fixer]

On the brass ring golden road path:

I think too many people are forgetting the main factor. Ready here goes.....

PERSONALITY

"Lucky" is knowing someone at SWA UPS AirTran that is willing to use his/her silver bullet or whatever you want to call it on YOU!

Those people remember flying with you and all the fun times you had at and away from work. They remember that you were not some toolbag that b!tched because the sky was blue and the grass is green again.

I happen to enjoy telling jokes (dirty and clean) and pretty much enjoy life to the extent that I'm capable of. I would like to think that it rubs off and has helped make a lot of friends.
I don't want to look back 30 years from now and realize I was p!ssed off 90% of the time.
So everyones homework assignment for tonight is to go home fire up the grill, crack a beer and invite a neighbor or a friend over,have a good time and just feel LUCKY to be alive and in good health.


This includes those with or without a formal education

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

On the brass ring golden road path:

I think too many people are forgetting the main factor. Ready here goes.....

PERSONALITY

"Lucky" is knowing someone at SWA UPS AirTran that is willing to use his/her silver bullet or whatever you want to call it on YOU!

Those people remember flying with you and all the fun times you had at and away from work. They remember that you were not some toolbag that b!tched because the sky was blue and the grass is green again.

I happen to enjoy telling jokes (dirty and clean) and pretty much enjoy life to the extent that I'm capable of. I would like to think that it rubs off and has helped make a lot of friends.
I don't want to look back 30 years from now and realize I was p!ssed off 90% of the time.
So everyones homework assignment for tonight is to go home fire up the grill, crack a beer and invite a neighbor or a friend over,have a good time and just feel LUCKY to be alive and in good health.


This includes those with or without a formal education

:beer: Here-here!!

 

[Lear70]

Thats Mr. Loooooooser to you and my current company does not suck. Your assumption about not being paid enough is correct though. I only came close to that once in my aviation career. I was at 14 year TWA captain pay and getting close to being comfortable and the rest is AA History.

SWA is a nice catch for such a short sighted and self-centered pilot. It appears their standards must be slipping. You sir keep the dream alive for those that struggle in school and want to take short cuts by not doing their homework (literally). If I was on Jeopardy and the category choices were,

(Well rounded individuals, NOT!)
(lack of EDUBICATION)
(Who you KNOW and Bl0W!)
(Toot my own horn!)
(I am so happy I’m Gaay!)
(My glass is half full because I am great)
(Goose is spelled with two o’s)

I believe my answer would be the same for all the categories.

ALEX WHO IS BRAVODUDE!

ROFLMAO!!

Classic.

:beer:

F16Fixer, you are absolutely right about personality. I had 4 letters of rec when I interviewed here, and I'm sure it made the difference. That was all about who I knew and had befriended along the way.

Also, just as an FYI, the Southwest process doesn't take ANY Letters of Rec nor do they bump people to the front of the pile for personality to GET the interview. An interview call at SWA is all about luck, as the computer picks you out of a pile of relatively equally-qualified candidates.

In my experience, someone who can't get any recommendations from previous coworkers probably isn't someone who's going to have the personality to pass the interview anyway so, in that way, it probably IS about personality when it comes down to it.

Which still leaves me shaking my head about BravoDude. Maybe he's one of those guys who keeps his mouth shut at work but uses this anonymous forum to show his true colors. Either way, his superior attitude pretty much sucks. It's a mystery how he fits into the cockpit - there's obviously barely enough room for him and his ego.

Incidentally, our cookout is Easter with a bunch of friends over. Hope you and yours have a happy one as well! :beer:

 

[AC560]

Every company is different.

Sure every company is different. In many companies unless you have an internal reference they aren't going to hire you regardless of your degree or not. What I can tell you is what is true in most cases. Most people don't care about the degree.

Bob Hoover never went to school as far as I am aware, do you think he would be a good candidate for a pilot at your company? If I had to pick somebody to fly me around he would be up near the top of my list. My suggestion is get your company to expand their interview pool, they could be missing a lot of people who would make an excellent fit on a rather arbitrary thing.

To answer the next question that I am sure to pop up. What if you have two identical candidates and one has a degree. The answer to that is there is no such thing as two identical candidates.

As I said the smart thing is get flying ASAP and work on the degree on the side. But if I had to choose between experience or the degree I am picking experience. The other thing that comes with that experience is meeting more people. And in any job process the #1 thing that helps you is contacts/references. Getting a head start on that will do more for you then anything else.