I'm going to build my multi time by PFT

[ePilot22]

Oh no!!!

Breaking it down to an hourly rate and seeing the savings is the ONLY reason I accept for going the PFT route.

Expense is no justifcation! Taking a job from a qualified pilot by BUYING that seat is WRONG! There is NO reason for it!!!

Flying has always been expensive, it stays relative to everything else!

I've talked to guys that paid $6 an hour for a plane and $6 for an instructor and they thought that was outragous!!!

But lets look at this another way...

How much are you really SAVING when you're PAYING to fly a job that would PAY you (or someone qualified)? Do you see the oxymoron? Saving money buying a job? PAYING TO WORK! The only ones saving money are the fat cats that are being paid! I don't understand why this isn't making sense!!!

DON'T PFT, PFW or PAY FOR FUEL! If they're already going there then they should be paying you!!!


eP.

 

[John2375]

Mr. ePilot22,
Please go to http://www.multiengine.net and http://www.simcenter.cc and write to them, expressing your views.
I don't know what sort of reply they'll give you, but I'd certainly be interested - let us know, ok?

 

[ePilot22]

Out of stamps!

John2375,

I don't want to hear what they have to say. Why would I ask a thief why he steals. I don't care why, it's WRONG. They "OFFER" this opportunity, but it's a guise. All they're going to tell me is how great it is and try and dispel any PFT notion anyway. They're selling (that's SELLING) that program, they're not going to do anything that won't sell it.

You seem to understand why KeySlime sucks. The other two program are the same idea, it's only a varition on how they offer it.

If you are working on your ratings or certs. I'm sure that there are other pilots at your airport that would split the cost of flying with you. It's fun! Go where you want, when you want. You ARE PIC!!! Not someone's biatch being told where to go and what to do and paying for them to shaft you!

Enjoy the time now. Soon enough you'll have a boss and management will treat you like crap, but at least you'll be getting paid. Don't pay for it.

Take your ticket and fly! Forget the twin, the turbine and especially the jet! They all do the same thing as the piston single. Flight is flight!

Also try instructing. It's a challenge. You'll learn more about flying than you ever knew and you will become a better pilot and person for it! Right now you seem to have the wrong impression of flight instruction. It's not about flying a traffic pattern or manuevers. It's about teaching! Sharing the joy of flight with another.

Again, forget building multi time. Build flying experience and learn. There will be plenty of time to fly multi and turbine and jets. You may one day WANT to go back and fly a little single engine Cessna or Piper. Who knows? Don't rush through it, take your time!

eP.

 

[big pimpn']

John2375,

You gibbering retard, why don’t you do us all a favor and go back to your special ed class and tell all of your Ritalin snorting friends how you dream of becoming a real life airline pilot. PFT is like going to a diploma mill and paying five hundred dollars for a bachelors degree in dip$hitology. Oh wait, you are a dip$hit. I’m sorry! I guess I should have more tolerance for those with special need handicaps. You are obviously the type of person who always takes the easy way out. Instead of putting in that extra little effort, you are more than happy to settle with mediocrity.

You are like a dog trying to lick up its own vomit, too stupid to even realize the consequences of your own actions. PFT is going to take more money out of your pocket in the long run than the money you spent in the first place. And what pi$$es myself, and every other airline pilot off, is the fact that degenerates like yourself are taking money out of our pockets. You are truly a pathetic creature and I hope nothing but the absolute worst for you and you’re paid for career.

 

[John2375]

back at'ya there tough guy
:uzi:

John2375,

You gibbering retard, why don’t you do us all a favor and go back to your special ed class and tell all of your Ritalin snorting friends how you dream of becoming a real life airline pilot. PFT is like going to a diploma mill and paying five hundred dollars for a bachelors degree in dip$hitology. Oh wait, you are a dip$hit. I’m sorry! I guess I should have more tolerance for those with special need handicaps. You are obviously the type of person who always takes the easy way out. Instead of putting in that extra little effort, you are more than happy to settle with mediocrity.

You are like a dog trying to lick up its own vomit, too stupid to even realize the consequences of your own actions. PFT is going to take more money out of your pocket in the long run than the money you spent in the first place. And what pi$$es myself, and every other airline pilot off, is the fact that degenerates like yourself are taking money out of our pockets. You are truly a pathetic creature and I hope nothing but the absolute worst for you and you’re paid for career.

 

[John2375]

I see your point ePilot22...just wish you saw mine more clearly but oh well enough's enough.
Flight is flight -very true - I'm sure despite our disagreements over this issue we could have a great time flying somewhere together or having a couple beers (after the flight ofcourse lol)

It's probably true what you say at the bottom there- seems so many guys I read about in AOPA who've been airline pilots want to buy a small airplane single engine and toot around in that..even several of the astronauts like that.

Aerobatics...that's something I'd love to explore - don't know if I'd be any good at it but certainly would love to take some lessons in it.

Good luck to you
:beer:

John2375,

I don't want to hear what they have to say. Why would I ask a thief why he steals. I don't care why, it's WRONG. They "OFFER" this opportunity, but it's a guise. All they're going to tell me is how great it is and try and dispel any PFT notion anyway. They're selling (that's SELLING) that program, they're not going to do anything that won't sell it.

You seem to understand why KeySlime sucks. The other two program are the same idea, it's only a varition on how they offer it.

If you are working on your ratings or certs. I'm sure that there are other pilots at your airport that would split the cost of flying with you. It's fun! Go where you want, when you want. You ARE PIC!!! Not someone's biatch being told where to go and what to do and paying for them to shaft you!

Enjoy the time now. Soon enough you'll have a boss and management will treat you like crap, but at least you'll be getting paid. Don't pay for it.

Take your ticket and fly! Forget the twin, the turbine and especially the jet! They all do the same thing as the piston single. Flight is flight!

Also try instructing. It's a challenge. You'll learn more about flying than you ever knew and you will become a better pilot and person for it! Right now you seem to have the wrong impression of flight instruction. It's not about flying a traffic pattern or manuevers. It's about teaching! Sharing the joy of flight with another.

Again, forget building multi time. Build flying experience and learn. There will be plenty of time to fly multi and turbine and jets. You may one day WANT to go back and fly a little single engine Cessna or Piper. Who knows? Don't rush through it, take your time!

eP.

 

[taloft]

...however this guy also said that the quality of the flying done is so much better in the PFT programs compared to spending hours in the local pattern. W/the exception of teaching instrument skills, that's pretty true too - you're teaching material that'll be used many times down the road - but so much is never going to be used.
"Howdy folks, welcome to flight 195 - today we'll be cruising at 35,000 feet and in an hour we'll be practicing lazy 8's and we'll be making a simulated short-field takeoff and I hope you've got good stomachs because we're going to do some spin recovery and power-off stalls too!

Hey, you don't want to instruct, that's fine. For the sake of future pilots, please don't. However, berating people who are earning their way into a seat through instruction sure isn't going to further your cause.

Personally, I learned more about flying and people from instruction than any job since.

Why is it fools always say instruction is just spending hours in the local pattern? Oh yeah, that's because you've never done it. Get off your high horse for a second and go teach some night multi instruction in some real weather. That takes the real sack you say you have by going the easy route.

Go out and try to keep yourself alive in the pattern with someone who's never landed a plane before. Talk someone through a landing without your touching the controls the first time they ever set foot into an aircraft. Learn how to get past someone's fear and put them at ease. You do that and you'll know what it means to be a competent instructor and pilot. Until then, stop berating something of which you obviously know nothing about.

Oh, and be sure to bring this attitude to your future "job". Captains will just love you for it.

If you want to PFT, that's fine with me, but don't berate the rest of the folks who earn their way in a pathetic attempt to justify why you won't need such valuable experience in the future. And it is valuable in ways apparently you will never know.

 

[FlierDude]

John 2375,

Are you sure you know what PFT is? Of the 2 sites you reference, the first is aircraft rental and the second is 121 'training' with a 6-month job guarantee afterwards. Of course, you've researched the latter and they employ 100% of their students, right?

Of the CP's I know, none would consider hiring a PFT'er. My first turbine job was a good example. That CP explained one big reason he selected me was because I expected a normal salary. Said he had plenty of applicants who would do the job for little or no pay, and he knew he'd get what he paid for.

Cutting corners will show up elsewhere in your career, it will be impossible to hide. You'll be the guy dozing in ground school, because what-the-hey, you got hired, right? That ground school stuff is for losers, you already know most of it anyway.

There's really only one person who benefits by you going PFT. The guy you made the check out to.

 

[John2375]

Well there seem to be gray-areas of PFT operations! People who are 100% dead set against the programs will then consider something like the http://www.multiengine.net program, maybe cuz it only would cost $4500 instead of $33000! (See the original post)
I can see why it has its downsides, dont' get me wrong. Believe it or not I"m not dead-set FOR doing it - it's just an option, one of several, and I just get more worked up about people overlooking what I"m saying - it's their way or the highway.
I know teaching is valuable experience, but being a GOOD TEACHER is important to me, and I dont feel I would be RIGHT NOW. Because I dont' have experience - I know there's plenty of newly minted CFI's w/400 hours who are great, but there's certainly so much to be said for experience - flying w/someone w/4 THousand hours as opposed to 400 has to mean something.
Contrary to what was said earlier, I hold CFI's in the HIGHEST regard - I'm not belittling what they do in the least - if I thought it were so easy, obviously i would just go and do that, since I always take the easy way out (according to other posts
Truthfully I'd like to build some experience, get my confidence up, and then pursue a CFI ticket, eventhough that's backwards of how it's usually done.
I just don't want to be one of those CFI's that people say "oh don't fly w/him...he's no good" I want people to say "fly w/John - he's a great pilot, great guy and will teach you a lot" I've had both kinds myself - instructor's who obviously were just timebuilding until they could get out...instructors who were just lousy teachers, and a great one - a guy who was an outstanding pilot, even better teacher, and who genuinely loved teaching..I learned so much from him.
I'd love to get a job flying banners or whatever and will certainly look into it...but I just get frustrated that people disagree w/what I say when they're facts.
Maybe you don't like it, or disagree, but it's a FACT that I've spoken w/those in a hiring position who said they wouldn't hold a PFT program against an applicant, just like it's a fact you've spoken w/a CP who said they wouldn't consider a PFTer. Obviously it depends on the person...but I'm just trying to say it's not clear-across the board that it's BAD and you're blackballing yourself or whatever - maybe some outfits will look down their nose and toss your application before ever calling you, but there's plenty of outfits that have no problem with it.
I challenged ePilot22 to email/call the simcenter or the multiengine.net place and express his thoughts to them - but he declined, saying it was pointless basically - I think it'd be very interesting and worth it to hear what they would say to someone like him who's so deadset against it.
So maybe ANYone here could write to them via email and tell them you think it's bad for industry, bad for pilots, bad all around, and maybe they'll ignore it but more than likely, they'll reply and defend their position and I and others would be interested in how they view someone who's so against them.
:beer:

 

[mar]

Blah, blah, blah

Whatever.

We've all been thru this crap before. You can do whatever your little heart desires.

PFT is *so* 1999.