I'm going to build my multi time by PFT

[ATRCAPT]

ePilot22 wanted me to start a thread in here about paying for training which I think is an excellent way to advance your career and which I will be doing in the coming months.
I am NOT a teacher and certainly am not going to teach something I have little experience in, so the CFI route is out for me.
I will be attending a program (not sure which one yet) that will allow me to gain valuable experience, leap-frog over the ones who are stuck-in-the-mud doing it the "right" way (just to prove a point i thinK) and will gain the necessary foot-in-the-door so hard to comeby in this industry.
Apprently he thinks his opinion is the only one that counts, and that leads me to believe he can't afford such a program and is jealous, and that's his problem. He said I wouldnt' have the balls to post this here, so I guess I got a nice sack now dont' I??!
My views /thoughts on PFT are wellknown and since I have spoken w/potential employers about these programs and THEY HAVE NO PROBLEM with it, I have no problem standing behind my beliefs since it's only those of you on these boards who seem to have such an issue with it.
There you go.
imp:

Your inexperience is ALREADY showing. In about five years you'll realize what an incredible wast of money PFT is. G'day!

 

[ePilot22]

Your genius is beyond me!

Good luck to you -see you in the skies one day and NO you wnt' be able to tell if I guy ever paid for time or not by looking at him. It's not like spotting a bad toupee.

If you're so proud then why don't you tell they pilot you're flying with that you PFT'd? You seem to think it's ok, but yet you say nobody will ever know.

And I'm the "imbecile".


eP.

 

[PCL_128]

you're hopelesss.

No my friend, it is you who appears to be hopeless. You have many pilots on this board with much more experience than you telling you that this is a bad idea and bad for the profession. Despite all of that, you still think it's ok. Don't you think it might be wise to listen to the guys that have been in the industry for a while? Use some common sense here instead of trying to rationalize this.

As many people around here know, I PFT'd at GIA about 5 years ago. I did so because I didn't have the information available to me that you have now. I didn't talk to a bunch of pilots that told me it was the wrong thing to do. You aren't at the same disadvantage, so don't go the same route I did. Listen to the people that have more experience than you.

 

[John2375]

Andonce agian, you guys don't or won't listen to what I"m saying:
READ MY POST AGAIN

Then to re-iterate:
The Chief Pilots of many companies I have spoken with HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH PAY FOR TIME/TRAINING PROGRAMS.
I'l repeat since it appears to not get into your heads:
The Chief Pilots of many companies I have spoken with HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH PAY FOR TIME/TRAINING PROGRAMS

And once more for good measure:
The Chief Pilots of many companies I have spoken with HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH PAY FOR TIME/TRAINING PROGRAMS

And not telling about PFT is nothing to do w/not being proud - I didnt mean that, I meant that looking at a guy, you can't tell - that's all - i didn't say I'd w/hold the information or lie about it, I just meant a PFT dude isn't going to have it written across his forehead!
I"m done with this - you guys are hopeless - go back and live in your fantasy world.

 

[CapnVegetto]

Poor dumb kid. Has no clue what he's talking about. Go spend $100K for an $18K a year job. It's your money. Or Daddy's.

Dumba$$.

 

[RichardRambone]

We understand the point that your future CP's don't mind that you PFTed, why would they? Your not hurting the CP's, your hurting all your fellow pilots. YOU need to understand that for every job you buy, some other pilot can't be paid for it. YOU need to understand that for every job you buy, some other pilot can't be paid for it. I repeat, YOU need to understand that for every job you buy, some other pilot can't be paid for it. Now I understand that you want everything now, as I sometimes do to, but god dang whats the rush to be underpaid by a company b/c jacka$$ like you would rather pay for the priviledge to fly?

 

[John2375]

Poor dumb kid. Has no clue what he's talking about. Go spend $100K for an $18K a year job. It's your money. Or Daddy's.

Dumba$$.

ONCE AGAIN AND FOR THE FOURTH TIME:
I"m NOT paying $100k for an $18k/year job.
Paying $4500 for 100 hours of multi time is not the same.

And I believe we ALL paid maybe not quite a 100 grand, but a damm LOT of money for our ratings to get that initial $18k/year job.

And btw, I'm no kid - probably old enough to be your father.
And one more thing, once more: These PFT jobs are NOT AVAILABLE to those not paying for the training and/or time.

And lastly - I'm not spending DADDY"s money. My father died when I was 5 years old and no he wasn't some rich guy and i'm not living off inheritance.
I"m not a kid, once agian, so let's stop with the disrespectful comments like that.

 

[NYCPilot]

Dude, why are you so bent.

If its a commerical operation, and you're not being paid, its PFJ, pure and simple. You may say its only 4500 and you're only doing it for experience, but so are the guys that get hired and paid to do it. At that level, they're most likely doing it for experience too.

Take that 4500 and go split 50 hrs with a friend in a multi.

Its like an ugly guy who cant get laid by a hot girl, so he goes and paids a hot hooker to sleep with him.

 

[dirtybird]

Take that 4500 and go split 50 hrs with a friend in a multi.

That's what I'm doing!

 

[gfvalvo]

Its like an ugly guy who cant get laid by a hot girl, so he goes and paids a hot hooker to sleep with him.

Don't kid yourself. When it comes to sex, we ALL pay for it. One way or another.

 

[ePilot22]

Hookers!!!

Its like an ugly guy who cant get laid by a hot girl, so he goes and paids a hot hooker to sleep with him.

Yeah! And you don't see hookers PAYING to sleep with fat ugly guys for the experience do ya!!!


eP.

 

[NYCPilot]

Don't kid yourself. When it comes to sex, we ALL pay for it. One way or another.

You pay for it with having looks, charm, intelligence and personality. Perhaps having more relationship experience as well. Maybe you need to drop a lot of cash when you date girls, but thats not necessarily the case. Theres a lot of girls who go dutch and treat plenty that dont want to be bought. They enjoy you're company and like being around you becasue you earned their affection. Not because you buy them things. Don't think they respect a guy who gives them all they want.

I suppose you do a lot of paying for girls, huh.

Your comment only strengthens my argument. Thanks.

 

[gfvalvo]

I suppose you do a lot of paying for girls, huh.

Yup, wife and 2 daughters. Wouldn't trade them or my situation for anything in the world. Not even 100 hours of multi time.
Lighten up a little.

 

[Reebo]

My father was the greatest man who ever lived, to me , and I do NOT appreciate anyone else calling me son.

Sorry John, you've still got a lot to learn.

 

[CapnVegetto]

ONCE AGAIN AND FOR THE FOURTH TIME:
I"m NOT paying $100k for an $18k/year job.
Paying $4500 for 100 hours of multi time is not the same.

Why the hell don't you get your MEI and get paid to fly that 100 hours instead of giving your $4500 bucks to some guy to drive his Duchess or whatever around?

And I believe we ALL paid maybe not quite a 100 grand, but a damm LOT of money for our ratings to get that initial $18k/year job.

You are being dicked out of so much money it's unreal. I'll break down my ratings for you:

200 hours (approx.) CE-152 time @ $45 bucks an hour = $9000 bucks. 20 hours or so in a PA28R commercial training, checkride, etc. @ $80 bucks an hour = $1600 bucks. Instructor time for say half that time @ $25 bucks an hour = $2750. Rest of time was built riding along with people I knew for time, etc. Multi rating was 15 hours @ $160 an hour for $2400 bucks. Instructor for that was say 20 hours at $30 bucks an hour = $600 bucks. Add in checkrides for Pvt through MEI, (initial CFI with the FAA was free) at $250 bucks apeice on average for another $1000 bucks. Airplane time about 10 hours (that's being REALLY liberal) at an average of $60 an hour = $600 bucks. Books, materials, etc. at $100 per rating (again that's REALLY liberal) = $500 bucks.

Add all that up for a grand total of $18,450 That got me getting PAID to fly. (Instructing). CFII and MEI were funded through that. And these damn academy PFT places are wanting SIX F-ING FIGURES? It's amazing to me what people that don't know any better will do. Even at today's insurance and fuel prices, you can rent a CE-152 at my local FBO for $65 bucks an hour. These big flight schools and PFT's are interested in one thing: dicking you out of as much money as they can.

And btw, I'm no kid - probably old enough to be your father.
And one more thing, once more: These PFT jobs are NOT AVAILABLE to those not paying for the training and/or time.

You're not a kid? Then stop acting like one. You may claim to be older than me, but your total naievity and unwillingness to listen to people that KNOW more about this than you betrays your maturity. Think about it man......what do you think Gulstream, Key Lime, or whatever would do if there weren't toolbags like yourself willing to BUY a seat with them? Oh my!! They might actually have to PAY QUALIFIED PEOPLE TO WORK FOR THEM! What would they do if there weren't toolbags like yourself willing to finance their own training? Oh my!! They'd actually have to PAY FOR IT THEMSELVES!! See what I'm getting at? As long as there are people like you willing to work for nothing, or even pay to do it, there will be operations like this around. Why do you think F/O's flying $30 million dollar RJ's around make less than you can at McDonalds? Because there are droves of guys like you that would do it for nothing, and management knows that. Until people like yourself get educated on this subject, it's going to get worse. YOU are part of the problem. Look at Pinnacle airlines. They got their 500 hour wonder program with Gulfstream cut off by the Feds, and all of a sudden they couldn't find pilots. So, they began paying during training, paying for a hotel, and paying perdiem. Wow!!! What a difference!

And lastly - I'm not spending DADDY"s money. My father died when I was 5 years old and no he wasn't some rich guy and i'm not living off inheritance.
I"m not a kid, once agian, so let's stop with the disrespectful comments like that.

My condolences for your father. But no matter who's money you're spending, it's still stupid. Listen to these people on here. They know what they are talking about. [/B]

.....

 

[NYCPilot]

Yup, wife and 2 daughters. Wouldn't trade them or my situation for anything in the world. Not even 100 hours of multi time.
Lighten up a little.

...see, I was right!

 

[ePilot22]

Is any of this helping?

John2375 and any one else considering PFT (or any form there of):

Can you begin to understand that it's not just my opinion of PFT? We are the pilots, we are the biggest part of this industry. It is OUR skill and knowledge that is needed to fly aircraft and we need to sell our skill, not buy it!!

Flying isn't about building multi time! Flying isn't about time at all! Flying is about the love of being aloft! Try setting the log book, and your mentality about building time, aside and just fly becuase you enjoy it. Work on building experience and knowledge, please don't just buy time, earn it!!

Your 100hrs will come faster than you think! In fact, renting a twin and learning through experience or by earning your MEI will make you much happier and leave you with great stories and memories to share with you fellow aviatiors later on. Sure it WILL cost you more, but nobody ever said aviation was cheap. Money makes planes fly! Just a fact of life.

Suppot yourself and our industry and DON'T PAY TO WORK or TRAIN! It's really not the deal it seems to be! Listen to the people that have been there, that have done it and take their advice!

Please!

eP.

 

[flyinboxes]

ACtually I meant future employers as in the people who';d be paying ME down the road.
Places that require a few hundred more hours than what I've got and another hundred hours or so of multi-time - those folks!
LIke I said, PFT is not a career-choice - you'd be flat broke w/o chance of recovery!! It's a necessary stepping stone for some, like me.
It doens't hurt me or the industry and tha'ts the industry folks talking.

You are clearly an outstanding individual. I work for a major freight carrier and would love to walk in your resume. I would also love to sit in on your interview while my buddies probe you on exactly how and why you did what you did. They would love to hear your story considering the fact that people like you tried to leap frog them in the past. The fact is that most PFT folks are stuck at crappy regionals for the rest of their miserable lives. It can infact hurt you so be very careful. Some people who sit on these interview boards do not forget.

 

[gfvalvo]

... Flying isn't about building multi time! Flying isn't about time at all! Flying is about the love of being aloft! Try setting the log book, and your mentality about building time, aside and just fly becuase you enjoy it...

Good post. But what you just described is personal GA flying. That's my attitude as it's the only flying I do. Flying for a living is work. Heck, even I know that much. I've seen it posted on one of these boards ... "the bottom line is what you get paid and how many vacation days you get". I've been an engineer for 20 years. I still enjoy the work, but it is work. I don't do it for the love of engineering.

Jaded? Pehaps I've been associating with too many professional pilots

 

[Lucky13]

Renting an airplane has gotten to be very, very expencive these days. One of the PFTs that was assigned to me said that it was cheaper to buy right seat time in the Metro than it was in his own airplane. Breaking it down to an hourly rate and seeing the savings is the ONLY reason I accept for going the PFT route.