ILS Critical Area Hold Line

[Amish RakeFight]

Wow 3 pages. All these so-called professional pilots not knowing that the critical area goes into effect at <800 and/or 2 miles. Funny. The OP could have easily looked up the reg. Sheeesh. If you're not told to do so, it's prudent to hold short of the critical area under these conditions. Have some common sense.

 

[Carl_Spackler]

just wait til someone asks about flight/duty time

 

[Andy Neill]

OK, here is the reference source from the JO7110.65S (Air Traffic Control):

3-7-5. PRECISION APPROACH CRITICAL AREA
a. ILS critical area dimensions are described in FAAO 6750.16, Siting Criteria for Instrument Landing Systems. Aircraft and vehicle access to the ILS/MLS critical area must be controlled to ensure the integrity of ILS/MLS course signals whenever conditions are less than reported ceiling 800 feet or visibility less than 2 miles. Do not authorize vehicles/aircraft to operate in or over the critical area, except as specified in subpara a1, whenever an arriving aircraft is inside the ILS outer marker (OM) or the fix used in lieu of the OM unless the arriving aircraft has reported the runway in sight or is circling to land on another runway.

This is a controller's responsibility and not the pilot's.​

 

[asayankee]

Lighten up Francis

OK...so if ATC tells you to taxi somplace on the airport and you take it upon yourself to stop somewhere because you think that they might want you to...maybe you gum something else up. Do you make it a habit of routinely violating clearances??? Perhaps the next time a controller tells me to descend to 10,000 feet I'll just stop at 11,000.....well because I think he might want that.

Do what you're told....this job is not that hard!

 

[jegermeister]

OK...so if ATC tells you to taxi somplace on the airport and you take it upon yourself to stop somewhere because you think that they might want you to...maybe you gum something else up. Do you make it a habit of routinely violating clearances??? Perhaps the next time a controller tells me to descend to 10,000 feet I'll just stop at 11,000.....well because I think he might want that.

Do what you're told....this job is not that hard!

Are you drunk?

 

[CA1900]

Are you drunk?

No, he's right.

Stop at the ILS line if instructed by ATC to do so. If not, don't.

Why are you guys making this so much harder than it really is?

 

[av8trinabarrel]

Actually had this question in my Net Jets interview last year. The guy asking the question seemed surprised that I knew the answer. I missed everything else!:smash:

 

[Mike man]

You land on 8L like we were today doing CAT 2 approaches. you are told to join Bravo westbound to Victor. Along the way there is an ILS Hold Short sign. Do you keep going???? There's one at B1 and one at B2.

According to Veneratio's article, it looks like as a landing aircraft, you are not required to hold???

Why hold short of the critical area for the departure runway?

 

[jws717]

You know what annoys me about ILS critical areas? When they are not on the 10-9 chart. Lazy people at Jepp need to get with the program.

 

[Mickey]

At some airports the ILS Critical area is quite a ways from the end of the runway. Why would you stop half way to the runway when you don't need to. ATC is trying to get aircraft out quickly and some so called professional pilot who doesn't know private pilot information, stops well short of the hold line causing an unusually long taxi before takeoff when they are cleared for take off. This could really mess up the spacing the controller is trying to maintain. That is why you don't stop at the critical line when you are not told to.

If it makes you uneasy, press the button and ask ATC. The worst aviation accident in history was because the pilots were afraid to ask ATC. When in doubt, ASK!

Here's another misunderstood one. When should you hold short of the runway "Approach" sign such as 9R at KORD?

Have fun!

 

[Metro752]

blah


:uzi:

 

[LarryinTN]

Next can we argue about the difference between an "ILS" hold line and an "APCH" hold line?

 

[callowayhd]

I think (not 100% sure) the ILS hold line for 8L is the one on taxiway Alpha. The one on Bravo is in the very rare event they are using 8R. One thing that is a little unusual, is there are two ILS Hold lines on Bravo. Never seen that before and have no idea why there would be two. Any ideas?

yeah, you are correct about the b1 and b2 ils hold lines pertaining to 8r and since rarely do they land 8r there is no sense in holding people short of a non critical ils area

the two areas are hold short because the sensitive area is between b1 and b2, once you cross b2 you are in the sensitive area and once past b1 you are out of it

 

[xjgearbtch]

Mesaba is going through the OUSD process for CAT II on the 200 & 900. It will be 5,000 and 5 and we will be doing practice approaches. You will see the critical area being active during VFR conditions.

 

[callowayhd]

Mesaba is going through the OUSD process for CAT II on the 200 & 900. It will be 5,000 and 5 and we will be doing practice approaches. You will see the critical area being active during VFR conditions.

do you have to turn off your i pod during the cat 2?

noo one cares about you guys at mesaba

 

[N1VIBS]

Mesaba is going through the OUSD process for CAT II on the 200 & 900. It will be 5,000 and 5 and we will be doing practice approaches. You will see the critical area being active during VFR conditions.

OK, maybe I don't understand your post. You're going to practicing cat II approaches and the wx has to be 5000 and 5?? WTF, are you going to be wearing a hood or something? Doesn't Mesaba have simulators? Like I said, maybe I just don't get what you are trying to say.

 

[CA1900]

OK, maybe I don't understand your post... WTF, are you going to be wearing a hood or something?

http://www.letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=OUSD+ILS+Category+II+approval

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

Andy and Veneratio,

Good stuff, thanks for the info.

Take a look at ATL's diagram.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dc/ATL_-_FAA_airport_diagram.png

You land on 8L like we were today doing CAT 2 approaches. you are told to join Bravo westbound to Victor. Along the way there is an ILS Hold Short sign. Do you keep going???? There's one at B1 and one at B2.

According to Veneratio's article, it looks like as a landing aircraft, you are not required to hold???

It only pertains to the appropriate runway in use. We protect for Localizer and GS. If that ILS hold line was for 26R then it doesn't need to be protected.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

It only pertains to the appropriate runway in use. We protect for Localizer and GS. If that ILS hold line was for 26R then it doesn't need to be protected.

How can you tell which one it is for?

this may be a dumb question, but I am cut from the cloth of "10 lbs. of ******************** in a 5 lb. bag."

 

[Raskal]

do you have to turn off your i pod during the cat 2?

noo one cares about you guys at mesaba

I work there and that even cracked me up, thanks :laugh: