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ILS Critical Area Hold Line

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Stifler...
Thanks for the PM (2 additional pilots emailed me with this exact question in the last couple of days, now I know why)!
We (ATC) must protect the ILS Critical area when the weather is less than 800/2. Now in the case of your specific question about using B-V at ATL after landing Rwy 8L, that critical area you are seeing depiected along B is for the glideslope for 8R, so its not an issue (so long as we're not landing the inboard) for you to continue without worry on the B-V routing.
Having said that, if a controller neglects to hold you short of a critical area to a runway that you know is in use with arrivals, and the weather is less than 800/2, it would be prudent for you guys and gals (as pilots) to ask the question before encroaching the area. The guy out there on the final just might be one of your buddies and dirsuption of the signal in IMC would require they execute a missed apporach. It other words, controllers are only human. We do make mistakes. This is supposed to be a team endeavor, so any help you can provide is apprecaited (might not always sound like it - but it is)!
Hope that answers your question!
 
What the fyck? ********************ing I'm a ********************ing noob, but how does this thread argue this simple point?


When:
  • 800 & 2....
  • Noted on the ATIS...
  • Instructed by ATC
  • In doubt....

anything less than that and you're just a dumbass, plain and simple
 
Metro752 said:
What the fyck? ********************ing I'm a ********************ing noob, but how does this thread argue this simple point?


When:
  • 800 & 2....
  • Noted on the ATIS...
  • Instructed by ATC
  • In doubt....
anything less than that and you're just a dumbass, plain and simple
Click to expand...

Lighten up Francis
 
Every other leg into an uncontrolled airport for me and while I have yet to have an issue with reception there is a lack of understanding of the requirement to hold short of the ILS hold line as I have popped out down low a few times to find an aircraft inside the protected area. Fortunately for us usually small GA aircraft that did not affect our approach.
 
What the fyck? ********************ing I'm a ********************ing noob, but how does this thread argue this simple point?


When:
  • 800 & 2....
  • Noted on the ATIS...
  • Instructed by ATC
  • In doubt....
anything less than that and you're just a dumbass, plain and simple
Click to expand...

Actually you are incorrect. It is 800 OR 2, not 800 AND 2.
 
if it makes you feel better, AND/OR

you can see a ******************** ton with a 800 foot ceiling, and 10 miles vis.......



<3
 
Wow 3 pages. All these so-called professional pilots not knowing that the critical area goes into effect at <800 and/or 2 miles. Funny. The OP could have easily looked up the reg. Sheeesh. If you're not told to do so, it's prudent to hold short of the critical area under these conditions. Have some common sense.
 
OK, here is the reference source from the JO7110.65S (Air Traffic Control):

3-7-5. PRECISION APPROACH CRITICAL AREA
a. ILS critical area dimensions are described in FAAO 6750.16, Siting Criteria for Instrument Landing Systems. Aircraft and vehicle access to the ILS/MLS critical area must be controlled to ensure the integrity of ILS/MLS course signals whenever conditions are less than reported ceiling 800 feet or visibility less than 2 miles. Do not authorize vehicles/aircraft to operate in or over the critical area, except as specified in subpara a1, whenever an arriving aircraft is inside the ILS outer marker (OM) or the fix used in lieu of the OM unless the arriving aircraft has reported the runway in sight or is circling to land on another runway.

This is a controller's responsibility and not the pilot's.​
 
jegermeister said:
Lighten up Francis
Click to expand...
OK...so if ATC tells you to taxi somplace on the airport and you take it upon yourself to stop somewhere because you think that they might want you to...maybe you gum something else up. Do you make it a habit of routinely violating clearances??? Perhaps the next time a controller tells me to descend to 10,000 feet I'll just stop at 11,000.....well because I think he might want that.

Do what you're told....this job is not that hard!
 
asayankee said:
OK...so if ATC tells you to taxi somplace on the airport and you take it upon yourself to stop somewhere because you think that they might want you to...maybe you gum something else up. Do you make it a habit of routinely violating clearances??? Perhaps the next time a controller tells me to descend to 10,000 feet I'll just stop at 11,000.....well because I think he might want that.

Do what you're told....this job is not that hard!
Click to expand...

Are you drunk?
 
Actually had this question in my Net Jets interview last year. The guy asking the question seemed surprised that I knew the answer. I missed everything else!:smash:
 
You land on 8L like we were today doing CAT 2 approaches. you are told to join Bravo westbound to Victor. Along the way there is an ILS Hold Short sign. Do you keep going???? There's one at B1 and one at B2.

According to Veneratio's article, it looks like as a landing aircraft, you are not required to hold???
Click to expand...

Why hold short of the critical area for the departure runway?
 
You know what annoys me about ILS critical areas? When they are not on the 10-9 chart. Lazy people at Jepp need to get with the program.
 
At some airports the ILS Critical area is quite a ways from the end of the runway. Why would you stop half way to the runway when you don't need to. ATC is trying to get aircraft out quickly and some so called professional pilot who doesn't know private pilot information, stops well short of the hold line causing an unusually long taxi before takeoff when they are cleared for take off. This could really mess up the spacing the controller is trying to maintain. That is why you don't stop at the critical line when you are not told to.

If it makes you uneasy, press the button and ask ATC. The worst aviation accident in history was because the pilots were afraid to ask ATC. When in doubt, ASK!

Here's another misunderstood one. When should you hold short of the runway "Approach" sign such as 9R at KORD?

Have fun!
 
N1VIBS said:
I think (not 100% sure) the ILS hold line for 8L is the one on taxiway Alpha. The one on Bravo is in the very rare event they are using 8R. One thing that is a little unusual, is there are two ILS Hold lines on Bravo. Never seen that before and have no idea why there would be two. Any ideas?
Click to expand...

yeah, you are correct about the b1 and b2 ils hold lines pertaining to 8r and since rarely do they land 8r there is no sense in holding people short of a non critical ils area

the two areas are hold short because the sensitive area is between b1 and b2, once you cross b2 you are in the sensitive area and once past b1 you are out of it
 
Mesaba is going through the OUSD process for CAT II on the 200 & 900. It will be 5,000 and 5 and we will be doing practice approaches. You will see the critical area being active during VFR conditions.
 
xjgearbtch said:
Mesaba is going through the OUSD process for CAT II on the 200 & 900. It will be 5,000 and 5 and we will be doing practice approaches. You will see the critical area being active during VFR conditions.
Click to expand...

do you have to turn off your i pod during the cat 2?

noo one cares about you guys at mesaba
 
xjgearbtch said:
Mesaba is going through the OUSD process for CAT II on the 200 & 900. It will be 5,000 and 5 and we will be doing practice approaches. You will see the critical area being active during VFR conditions.
Click to expand...

OK, maybe I don't understand your post. You're going to practicing cat II approaches and the wx has to be 5000 and 5?? WTF, are you going to be wearing a hood or something? Doesn't Mesaba have simulators? Like I said, maybe I just don't get what you are trying to say.
 
Stifler's Mom said:
Andy and Veneratio,

Good stuff, thanks for the info.

Take a look at ATL's diagram.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dc/ATL_-_FAA_airport_diagram.png

You land on 8L like we were today doing CAT 2 approaches. you are told to join Bravo westbound to Victor. Along the way there is an ILS Hold Short sign. Do you keep going???? There's one at B1 and one at B2.

According to Veneratio's article, it looks like as a landing aircraft, you are not required to hold???
Click to expand...

It only pertains to the appropriate runway in use. We protect for Localizer and GS. If that ILS hold line was for 26R then it doesn't need to be protected.
 
Lrjtcaptain said:
It only pertains to the appropriate runway in use. We protect for Localizer and GS. If that ILS hold line was for 26R then it doesn't need to be protected.
Click to expand...

How can you tell which one it is for?

this may be a dumb question, but I am cut from the cloth of "10 lbs. of ******************** in a 5 lb. bag."
 

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