If/When Spirit Strikes

[AirCobra]

Major logical fail!
The point isn't choices made or coulda/shoulda/woulda... any career path
The point of this whole thread is pilots who don't have much but are willing to bust ass and put it on the line to make it better for themselves and their families....

That is not what you told that Fed Ex guy, you told him if he didn't like it then leave. Maybe you should change your screenname to Harvey Dent.

Originally Posted by Rez O. Lewshun
You seem to have trouble grasping the concept of choice and free will.

No one forced you to accept employment at FX. and through all the changes at FX, (Flying Tigers, ALPA, FPA, ALPA) no one forced you to stay.

Yet, you seem to have issues with others...for the choices you made.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez, I doubt I am alone on this, but the major logical failure is with you. The point of this thread is exactly what you said above. Your failure lies in your disdain of the military and blatantly stereotyping us as selfish bastards just out for ourselves. Nobody else has faults...just the Mil guys. Thanks. We all appreciate that. I see you made a bunch of friends over on the mil board tonight by labeling them blood thirsty child killers. We appreciate that too. I tried to reason with you knowing I would fail to get through but I tried. Have a nice evening.

Not really. We all have faults, but it seems the MIL guys can't talk about their own faults. Seriously... go to the MIL section of this board.... any criticism is met with a harsh backlash... That is probably my issue...

Recall the F18 that crashed at Miramar and wiped out a mans family. The jet should have landed at N. Island, approaching over the water. But the rabid defense spoke volumes.

Same with the two CIV aircraft in the MOA. MIL pilot gets scolded, but the adamant, illogical defense of his actions and the fault was all on the CIV pilots was amazing...

It is not representative of all MIL guys... there are tools in every organization.... right? So lets call the tools out for who they are.....

I support the MIL guys in ALPA work and have sent packages to guys deployed....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

What happened to your ungraceful bowing out of this thread... your.......ego........ just....



won't......




let.....



it....







go.

Rez are you two different people writing the same post? You realize your first paragraph negates your second. If there is always going to be someone willing to do my job cheaper, then what point is there to standing up for yourself when someone will always come along and undercut me?

No, my two paragraph describe you quite well....

You are the guy that adores the free market, but doesn't do anything as a UAL pilot to make the place better.... then your market forces furlough you... and you cut and run.....

We already went through this a few months ago, I get "Rez's Rules". When you undercut me I deserved it, that is how free markets work. Now when someone undercuts you its an outrage and its my fault for not standing behind you.

Naw, it just your fault for not defending the profession. You did nothing at UAL, except violate the IAM contract. How embarrassing...

I don't know what the point of talking to you is anyway.

Then why do you do it? You said you were bowing out last week. That you were done, yet here you are setting 'em up so I can knock 'em down. On other threads you offer no logic just labeling, ranting, pouting and tantrums. Don't go away confused... just go away...

How can anyone who contends retired military pilots are responsible for driving down pilot wages

Not at all, just guys like you who don't fight for the profession, to make the place better. I know lots of MIL guys that realize duty, honor, country doesn't apply in the "free market". Once they realize that corporations don't have a 'duty, honor, country' creed like they do, and that mgmnt uses that creed against them, they work hard to defend the profession. But not you. Your creed to mgmnt is "thank you sir, may I have another"

while they themselves are flying mainline routes in an RJ for half the money can be taken seriously.

Didn't you and your mainline pilots give this flying away? What are you ding to get it back. I can assure you I am working to fix it. In addition, I know if I am ever a UAL pilot, I'll know exactly what example not to follow.

There are some new threads popping up on the scope issue due to an article. Like another poster told you... you've much to learn.

You said you'd bow out, yet you keep coming back to get knocked down and out........... I am sure you're be back for more......:laugh:

 

[Mamma]

Not really. We all have faults, but it seems the MIL guys can't talk about their own faults. Seriously... go to the MIL section of this board.... any criticism is met with a harsh backlash... That is probably my issue...

Recall the F18 that crashed at Miramar and wiped out a mans family. The jet should have landed at N. Island, approaching over the water. But the rabid defense spoke volumes.

Same with the two CIV aircraft in the MOA. MIL pilot gets scolded, but the adamant, illogical defense of his actions and the fault was all on the CIV pilots was amazing...

It is not representative of all MIL guys... there are tools in every organization.... right? So lets call the tools out for who they are.....

I support the MIL guys in ALPA work and have sent packages to guys


deployed....

So after all this it has come to light that we actually agree. There are tools everywhere and we will call them out.

 

[Mike man]

So back to a Spirit thread...here are the last 4 quarters of financial reports from the BTS:

...........Operating......Operating......Operating........NET
............Revenue...... Expenses.....Profit/(loss)....INCOME
2008Q4 176,875,000 155,676,000 21,199,000....11,094,000

2009Q1 169,879,000 141,110,000 28,769,000....16,919,000

2009Q2 179,094,000 148,055,000 31,039,000....19,355,000

2009Q3 178,345,000 152,292,000 26,053,000....14,067,000

 

[Mike man]

Update March 12, 2010

The National Mediation Board informed ALPA that it had arranged two days of negotiations to take place on April 6 and 7. NMB member, Linda Puchala, will be participating in mediating these talks personally.

After these talks, the NMB has the authority to declare an impasse and offer binding arbitration before releasing the pilot group and the company to self-help.

...message truncated[FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]

Linda Puchala

Nominated by President Barack Obama, Ms. Linda A. Puchala was confirmed as Member of the National Mediation Board by the United States Senate on May 21, 2009. She was sworn in on May 26, 2009, completing the term of her predecessor as Chairman through June 30, 2009. Ms. Puchala’s current term as Member runs through June 30, 2012.

Prior to becoming a Member, Ms. Puchala served as the Sr. Mediator (ADR) and the Associate Director of Alternative Dispute Resolution Services of the National Mediation Board. She joined the agency in May, 1999, as a Mediator working on both airline and railroad cases.

Member Puchala has 40 years of experience in Labor Relations, including work as International President of the Association of Flight Attendants-CWA, AFL-CIO, and Staff Director, Michigan State Employees Association, AFSCME, AFL-CIO.
[FONT=&quot]
http://www.nmb.gov/directory/puchala-bio.html
[/FONT]

 

[whymeworry?]

I see standard FI answers, insults, name calling, etc, but how come no one answered the questions? Why do I get calls from Spirit pilots asking about hiring plans at JUS? In the end the consumer determines what the pilots will get paid, not management, not unions, not the gov't. BTW If all the pilot grew balls, would that require single gender operations?

Yer joking, right? 12000 hrs and this is how you think the airline business works?

 

[Lear70]

Yer joking, right? 12000 hrs and this is how you think the airline business works?

He has for years... we've had this conversation ad nauseum here on the boards.

He doesn't quite GET that what the PASSENGERS determine is how much GROSS revenue an airline makes from operations, based on how much they're willing to pay for a ticket.

Passengers don't then decide what we get of that; that's between us and management. If management doesn't think they can be profitable with what the pilots want, they either shut down the airline over it when a strike comes or they allow it, knowing they will have to eventually file bankruptcy and can re-negotiate the contracts then.

Pilots simply bear the responsibility of pricing their services reasonably in negotiations, based on the market and how profitable that airline is. That's where ALPA EF&A comes in. They have, more than once, told MEC's that they cannot get what they want with the company's financials the way they are. On the other hand, when ALPA says that the demands are reasonable compared to the company's financials, then it's up to the pilots to draw that line in the sand.

The flying public has nothing to do with it, but YIP seems to think that ticket pricing translates directly to pilot salaries - it doesn't, except that an airline has to be profitable to demand increases. I think Spirit has demonstrated that quite well...

YMMV

 

[pilotyip]

but YIP seems to think that ticket pricing translates directly to pilot salaries - it doesn't, except that an airline has to be profitable to demand increases. I think Spirit has demonstrated that quite well...YMMV

No he doesn't think that, but you have to admit that consumer demand will effect how much you can charge for a seat in a competitive market. Like you said if the salary demands are too high the costs can not be passed along to the consumer. Also management will then make decision to try it or fold. Which is now this tread started. Also remember if the pilots get more money than every other employee group in the airline will feel they also need to have a raise. This compounds the cost effect of giving any raises.

 

[waveflyer]

What should pilots be paid YIP? Throw out some numbers...

I agree with the joker -' if you're good at something never do it for free'

 

[pilotyip]

lots

What should pilots be paid YIP? Throw out some numbers...

I agree with the joker -' if you're good at something never do it for free'

pilots should make $400k/yr, you just have to find someone that can stay is business at that level. BTW I am good at flying also and I do it for free to support a non-profit. Being good at flying an airplane is something almsot anyone can do with a certain level of skill and desire. Do not take yourself too seriously because you are close to the top of the pile.

 

[Lear70]

Also remember if the pilots get more money than every other employee group in the airline will feel they also need to have a raise.

Pilots will always make more than any other employee group except management.

This is to be expected. The only workers as skilled as we are, arguably, are the mechanics, and they don't have to be gone from their families half the month. We get compensated additionally for that sacrifice. So no, I don't buy into the "The pilots get paid more than us, we should demand more" train of thought. NO employee group, as a whole, feels that way. Flight attendants, rampers, CSR agents, gate agents, office workers, none of them expect to make more than we do, that's ridiculous.

Being good at flying an airplane is something almsot anyone can do with a certain level of skill and desire. Do not take yourself too seriously because you are close to the top of the pile.

I strongly disagree with this assertion, also.

I've flown with WAY too many F/O's who will NEVER upgrade and have NO business being in this industry, but got here because it's their second career or mommy and daddy had enough money to get them through the flight schools that were, arguably, PAID to get them to a passing level.

Once they have to fend for themselves in the real world, they never go anywhere. At least half of the pilots who never make it out of the regionals or the 121/135 freight operators should never have been there to begin with.

Your argument is like trying to say that anyone can be an attorney or doctor with enough desire and persistence. I know I certainly *COULD*, but would I be any *GOOD* at it? probably not. Same goes for flying: some people just don't have any business being here.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Pilots will always make more than any other employee group except management. .

And the only reason why is becasue managment controls the coffers... the actual revenue that is ultimately generated when pilots safely land at the destination.....

It is not that management actually earns the amount of money they pay themselves...!!!

 

[AirCobra]

... yet here you are setting 'em up so I can knock 'em down.

Great analogy Rez! You are like a bowling ball; dense, hard headed, and you like to roll around in the gutter.

 

[AirCobra]

Pilots will always make more than any other employee group except management.

This is to be expected. The only workers as skilled as we are, arguably, are the mechanics, and they don't have to be gone from their families half the month. We get compensated additionally for that sacrifice. So no, I don't buy into the "The pilots get paid more than us, we should demand more" train of thought. NO employee group, as a whole, feels that way. Flight attendants, rampers, CSR agents, gate agents, office workers, none of them expect to make more than we do, that's ridiculous.

Where do you work? Rampers, mechanics, and office workers make more than pilots all over the airline industry. Probably the only reason CSR's don't make more than pilots is because most of their work has been outsourced to aviation service companies. These kind of comments create disunity. For example any CS could talk about the liability they incurr when operaing the jetway, or ramper could talk about the amount of liability they incurr when pushing back an aircraft or insuring aircraft are loaded properly and the cargo doors are secure. Could you just walk onto the ramp and load palletized cargo into a 747? These people are highly skilled, they just have a different skill set.