If/When Spirit Strikes

[pilotyip]

lots

What should pilots be paid YIP? Throw out some numbers...

I agree with the joker -' if you're good at something never do it for free'

pilots should make $400k/yr, you just have to find someone that can stay is business at that level. BTW I am good at flying also and I do it for free to support a non-profit. Being good at flying an airplane is something almsot anyone can do with a certain level of skill and desire. Do not take yourself too seriously because you are close to the top of the pile.

 

[Lear70]

Also remember if the pilots get more money than every other employee group in the airline will feel they also need to have a raise.

Pilots will always make more than any other employee group except management.

This is to be expected. The only workers as skilled as we are, arguably, are the mechanics, and they don't have to be gone from their families half the month. We get compensated additionally for that sacrifice. So no, I don't buy into the "The pilots get paid more than us, we should demand more" train of thought. NO employee group, as a whole, feels that way. Flight attendants, rampers, CSR agents, gate agents, office workers, none of them expect to make more than we do, that's ridiculous.

Being good at flying an airplane is something almsot anyone can do with a certain level of skill and desire. Do not take yourself too seriously because you are close to the top of the pile.

I strongly disagree with this assertion, also.

I've flown with WAY too many F/O's who will NEVER upgrade and have NO business being in this industry, but got here because it's their second career or mommy and daddy had enough money to get them through the flight schools that were, arguably, PAID to get them to a passing level.

Once they have to fend for themselves in the real world, they never go anywhere. At least half of the pilots who never make it out of the regionals or the 121/135 freight operators should never have been there to begin with.

Your argument is like trying to say that anyone can be an attorney or doctor with enough desire and persistence. I know I certainly *COULD*, but would I be any *GOOD* at it? probably not. Same goes for flying: some people just don't have any business being here.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Pilots will always make more than any other employee group except management. .

And the only reason why is becasue managment controls the coffers... the actual revenue that is ultimately generated when pilots safely land at the destination.....

It is not that management actually earns the amount of money they pay themselves...!!!

 

[AirCobra]

... yet here you are setting 'em up so I can knock 'em down.

Great analogy Rez! You are like a bowling ball; dense, hard headed, and you like to roll around in the gutter.

 

[AirCobra]

Pilots will always make more than any other employee group except management.

This is to be expected. The only workers as skilled as we are, arguably, are the mechanics, and they don't have to be gone from their families half the month. We get compensated additionally for that sacrifice. So no, I don't buy into the "The pilots get paid more than us, we should demand more" train of thought. NO employee group, as a whole, feels that way. Flight attendants, rampers, CSR agents, gate agents, office workers, none of them expect to make more than we do, that's ridiculous.

Where do you work? Rampers, mechanics, and office workers make more than pilots all over the airline industry. Probably the only reason CSR's don't make more than pilots is because most of their work has been outsourced to aviation service companies. These kind of comments create disunity. For example any CS could talk about the liability they incurr when operaing the jetway, or ramper could talk about the amount of liability they incurr when pushing back an aircraft or insuring aircraft are loaded properly and the cargo doors are secure. Could you just walk onto the ramp and load palletized cargo into a 747? These people are highly skilled, they just have a different skill set.

 

[PCL_128]

Also remember if the pilots get more money than every other employee group in the airline will feel they also need to have a raise. This compounds the cost effect of giving any raises.

This is typical management propaganda that only the slow and dimwitted will believe. There isn't a union in existence that makes its arguments for pay raises based on what some other craft and class is getting paid. Arguments are always made based on what peers are making at other carriers.

 

[Mike man]

Where do you work? Rampers, mechanics, and office workers make more than pilots all over the airline industry. Probably the only reason CSR's don't make more than pilots is because most of their work has been outsourced to aviation service companies. These kind of comments create disunity. For example any CS could talk about the liability they incurr when operaing the jetway, or ramper could talk about the amount of liability they incurr when pushing back an aircraft or insuring aircraft are loaded properly and the cargo doors are secure. Could you just walk onto the ramp and load palletized cargo into a 747? These people are highly skilled, they just have a different skill set.

Time to get back on the meds AirCobra...ramp workers and gate agents...highly skilled???

Ramp worker incurring liability when they push an airplane back? Are you serious?

Other than their $6.50 an hour job what liability do they have? The airline does not come after them to repay the damages if they hit a baggage cart. The fire them if they hit a cart...have you ever actually been to an airport?

Now I will admit that a gate agent does posses one very specialized skill, and it is ignoring people when they stand at their counter for five minutes while the agent looks apparently busy with nothing for ten minutes and if the PAX (or crew member) is still there then they just might help in their feeble minded way that only a gate agent can muster.

Back a few years ago there were plenty of rampers and gate agents making more than pilots. But these were the agents who had worked for US Air for 40 years and were making 100K/year. Those days are long gone.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Great analogy Rez! You are like a bowling ball; dense, hard headed, and you like to roll around in the gutter.

How about baseball.... you've struck out more times on this thread. You refuse to attend batting practice, and somehow find the arrogance to keep stepping into the batters box without yielding a better result.

The Monkey Jar: A small jar is placed at the base of a tree with nuts or other items which may attract the monkey’s curiosity.
The opening of the jar allows the monkey to place his hand in, but when he tries to withdraw it, he is unable to do so without letting go of the contents of the jar. Believe it or not, some monkeys will stay there with their hand in the jar until the hunter comes back to trap them! They are trapped because they are unwilling to let go of something they are doing which is working against them.
​

Your ego is the food. You just can't let it go... so you've trapped yourself on this thread.... constantly holding onto your ego.


If you want to talk issues let's do that... I am still waiting for you to discuss the leverage and coercion created from a labor alliance within a company. Also, I am waiting for you to discuss radical change at ALPA. What that is and how it gets done.


Or you can keep sniping with personal attacks...

 

[AirCobra]

Time to get back on the meds AirCobra...ramp workers and gate agents...highly skilled???

Ramp worker incurring liability when they push an airplane back? Are you serious?

Other than their $6.50 an hour job what liability do they have? The airline does not come after them to repay the damages if they hit a baggage cart. The fire them if they hit a cart...have you ever actually been to an airport?

Now I will admit that a gate agent does posses one very specialized skill, and it is ignoring people when they stand at their counter for five minutes while the agent looks apparently busy with nothing for ten minutes and if the PAX (or crew member) is still there then they just might help in their feeble minded way that only a gate agent can muster.

Back a few years ago there were plenty of rampers and gate agents making more than pilots. But these were the agents who had worked for US Air for 40 years and were making 100K/year. Those days are long gone.

Mike this is a really a terrible post. Ramp workers don't get $6.50 an hour, they get upwards of $20.00 an hour. Many or trained and licensed to operate heavy equipment and are paid for their skill. They can cause millions in damages, and an improperly loaded aircraft or an improperly secured cargo door could cause an aircraft to crash. Saying they are unskilled diminishes their profession and their professionalism. The are mostly union employees you know so they are not just summarily fired as you seem to think. They are screened and trained by the airline, while others are hired for skills they received on their own, such as heavy equipment operators, and most are part of the IAM. Next time you are at the airport go to a gate where they are loading a 747 then tell me it takes no skill and those guys incur no liability. Don't be an another arrogant pilot, we have enough of those in our profession as it is.

 

[AirCobra]

How about baseball.... you've struck out more times on this thread. You refuse to attend batting practice, and somehow find the arrogance to keep stepping into the batters box without yielding a better result.


Your ego is the food. You just can't let it go... so you've trapped yourself on this thread.... constantly holding onto your ego.


If you want to talk issues let's do that... I am still waiting for you to discuss the leverage and coercion created from a labor alliance within a company. Also, I am waiting for you to discuss radical change at ALPA. What that is and how it gets done.


Or you can keep sniping with personal attacks...

Okay then comment on Mike or Lear's post. Do you think your fellow union workers are just a bunch unskilled rubes and meaningless to the airline compared to us Supermen pilots?