If/When Spirit Strikes

[AirCobra]

Add to the above a dislike for the APA too.

The APA? What makes them so great? The fact they put out a couple of press releases against Age 65? The 45MM action against them? Or they way they screwed the TWA pilots?

Rez looking back on your old posts concerning ALPA is fascinating. You are like the Josef Goebbels of ALPA the way you foam at the mouth and attack fellow ALPA pilots if they speak out. Not to mention pilots from other unions. It seems I am far from alone in thinking ALPA has problems, lots of them. Why are you so desperate to maintain the status quo?

John Pennekamp calls you "ALPA's biggest cheerleader" in the "What has ALAP done for me lately" thread. I think he underestimated, you are ALPA's Propaganda Minister (unsolicited I might add).

For me this one took the cake. I can't believe you said this to a FedEX guy nonetheless, given the way you get all over people when they say "if you don't like where you are working, no one is forcing you to stay there". I guess your hypocrisy is boundless and your ethics are situational.

So is your advice to Spirit guys now going to be "No one is forcing you to stay there, leave if you don't like it" :laugh:


Originally Posted by Rez O. Lewshun

You seem to have trouble grasping the concept of choice and free will.

No one forced you to accept employment at FX. and through all the changes at FX, (Flying Tigers, ALPA, FPA, ALPA) no one forced you to stay.

Yet, you seem to have issues with others...for the choices you made.


http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=108006&page=8

 

[AirCobra]

Bowing Out of this Thread

Gentlemen,
I gave you my concerns, offered what I thought would some workable solutions, and patiently waded through a lot of insults. Many of my comments about the problems ALPA has are nothing new to FI, but as usual there are a few posters on here always quick to shout others down should they question the status quo. Maybe you don't agree with anything I said, but hopefully at least it has given some of you pause or made you think.

Some poster named Joe Merchant has a very appropriate tag, it says:

ALPA: To many Rez O. Lewshuns, not enough leaders.

To me nothing could be truer. Part of the problem we all have is with ALPA's leadership. There are to many guys like Rez O. Lewshun who will pretty much question your humanity if you speak against ALPA. Hopefully his kind is a dying breed or maybe they are just the most vocal, I don't know, but I do know ALPA needs more guys like Lear 70, willing to critically analyze our mistakes and offer solutions, or UAL Driver who's posts you may have seen in other threads.

Anyway I have said all I needed to say and find I am just repeating myself. For Mike O. and the rest of the Spirit guys, I pray to God I am totally wrong and your MEC has everything under control and is acting in good faith. I wish you the best and hope you will come back in a few months and say "I told you so, management backed down and gave us what we wanted".

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

You are losing the debate as shown by the fundamentals classic reversion to the Bible. God has nothing to do with this. Either you can debate intelligently on the issue or not. God can't help your ignorance. Only you can.

Rez,
Look how you are frothing at the mouth of any criticism of ALPA. I am sure you would have me tossed into a Gulag if this was the People's Republic of America you want. Please try to control yourself and learn to function in a Democracy.

So you are losing the debate quite significantly here... no agrees with you thinking sans Yip and he has left the mat. Now you are accusing me of what you are guilty of... classic debate failure...

The idea of Karma is a pretty universal concept, and has other names, like tit for tat, what goes around-comes around, reap and sow, however you want to say it. You don't understand I want to lose this debate. I want to be proven wrong. I just don't see anything different in what ALPA is saying, so why should it work this time?

Is this a threat? Some sort of mystical coercion you are trying to instill fear with me. Sorry but this is hilarious.

That is a false correlation on your part. I've gone above and beyond for the pax. I know the difference. I refuse to be a corporate tool.
I didn't think you did and I said as much. Your A to B comment was just bluster on your part. Anyone with any self respect goes above and beyond, but in doing so you are aiding the bottom line of the corporation. Oh an by the way you work for a corporation so you are a corporate tool, the only way not to be is to not work for a corporation. You are dependent on them even though you pretend you are not.

Wrong again. Your lack of effectiveness to communicate any sort of reason in this debate is showing. Again, you accuse me of what you are guilty of... classic indication of debate failure. Actually, I've gone beyond for the pax despite managements indifference to screw the pax. But again, you know not the difference between business operations and flight operations.

You need to shed your ignorance first. Seriously, you are so far removed from the labor movement and its ideals that you need to get 'trained and educated' if this is how you really believe. I think the pushback that you've gotten, not from me, but from so many on this thread is telling. Don't you? In addition, having a grievance filed against you is a bad stuff.
You are so into the labor movement you can't see what is happening outside it. You have lost the ability to assess situations outside a very narrow mindset. You are an enigma. Your thoughts about politics are supposedly progressive, and your thoughts about labor are still stuck in the 19th century. I thought the future wasn't iun the past. That is what you told me.

Again, attacks on me because your master warning is flashing debate fail. Silence the warning and take appropriate action...

No it is not. Again, from someone who has never really functioned in a democracy you demonstrate again your failure to understand. Democracy is about stability. Revolution and activists movements is about radical change. Sure they can happen within a democratic system, but democracy is not radical.
You are babbling here. I thought freedom of expression is a tennant of democracy and here you are trying to silence me and ridicule me. Now tell me again who doesn't know how to function in a democracy? Anyway, democracy can become nothing more than mob rule, and that is the very essence of what I am complaining about.

Again, total debate fail. As I've schooled you before, democracy doesn't require intelligence. You are correct that it is mob rule. We've seen the conservatives, the part of obstructionism. You have not offered anything constructive. So is the majority on this thread is supposed to change to accommodate stupid? Are you serious?

Are you serious? We have admitted our mistakes. What do you want ALPA members to be? Opus Dei? Self mutilating?
How to you expect to learn if you don't admit your mistakes? Lear listed seven points where he thinks ALPA has gone wrong, you list 0, its all just managments fault to you. I guess you think admitting mistakes is a sign of weakness. Well all you have done is resign yourself to making the same mistakes over and over again.

I was never asked to list ALPA failures. He did that on his own accord. That you are trying to show that I haven't goes back to debate fail. Anything you can do to deflect.

I know what ALPA's failures are and I am actually working to effect change. Listing ALPA's failures on this message board is only fodder for the haters who live in irresponsibility and a lack of ownership.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Everything that effects Air Line Pilots careers is determined politically. New higher regional pilots don't know this. You should.

But you are advocating that ALPA is paralyzed. What should be done to reverse this. What do you advocate? If you answer nothing else.. tell us what you think ALPA should do differently.. and how. Ideas are great but it is really the how.

Explain
I believe ALPA is ostensibly paralyzed already, you just refuse to notice. I spelled out what I thought should be done to change this in my last long post to you. I was hoping for at least intelligent disagreement, but I got what exactly what I expected a bunch of childish insults from from those that want nothing more than to maintain the status quo. Your posts stink to high heaven Rez. Shout others down, insult people, say ALPA can never admit to a mistake, say ALPA is never wrong because management may find away to use it against us. You are supposedly a leader in ALPA? And these are your attitudes? How then do you function in a supposedly democratic orgnaization?

Sorry must have missed your spelling of what should change. Will you cut and paste it? Thanks.

No you did not. In addition there are UAL pilots that want UPA. You level of understanding is weak. Just read the replies from many others on this thread.
I saw a lot of hard core union guys get turned off by the whole process who were stonewalled by ALPA and now call ALPA "Romper Room." I saw loss after loss for the pilot group while ALPA claimed victory. I saw nearly 30% of pilots refuse recall becuase many were just tired of the management AND union BS. I saw half of our domestic flying taken away by our regional airline ALPA brothers, and I got told by people like you that we got what we deserved. So what lesson should I have learned?

Do you honestly expect pilots to like ALPA paycuts and pension loss?

My new sig line.
Good lets talk about that, I let you know why I did it. We were the first flight of the day. Well you know the deal, its an accordion effect, if we get out late, then the next flight become later, and so on and so on. ATC needed to get us out right away or we could expect a 40 minute delay. We were waiting for a ramp guy to take the bags down. We waited to the last possible minute then I got up opened the door to the jetway, signaled a guy on the ground, and handed him the bags on the outside stairs of the jetway.

Why did I do it?

You did it because you are a management tool. If you did on this day, then EVERY day you'll do it. Why would you not. If you didn't get furloughed at UAL until you retired at 65, you are schlepping bags. Integrity right.... good enough on first flight of the day... good enough for all the first flights of the day for your entire career. All you are doing is subsidizing poor management. This Air Line pilot 101. But since you went right from the MIL to UAL... it took you longer to learn it.

Not only so we wouldn't be delayed and our passengers miss their connections, but so the crew that was to take our plane wouldn't get screwed maybe get their duty day elongated to the point where they couldn't make it home, or another crew wouldn't get extended or have to be called in. You know all the reasons and what can happen, I am sure.

This management suck up is embarrassing to read... you should have just kept quiet. None of this is your responsibility! This is your flawed mindset that you have to do something.. you have to fix this.... If management really wanted the jet on time, then they would do their jobs properly! Incredible!!

So I don't want screw my fellow ALPA brothers, but you don't see it way do you? I am just an evil voider of IAM contracts. Who wins when two labor groups are pitted against each other? I would say its management. So keep it as you signature line if you want. I will just post the story of how you want to screw ALPA guys so as not to void any Mickey Mouse featherbedding contract provisions of the IAM.

Good god and all things holy.... all you are doing is setting a precedent and expectation for other ALPA pilots to have to schlep bags. Air line pilots don't move bags. You probably clean the crapper at your current job!

Maybe I can add these gems to my signature line:

Originally Posted by Rez O. Lewshun
Mainline United pilots got what they deserved.

or

Retired military pilots are responsible for driving down wages.

Which do you think would be better?

When I talk to UAL pilots they state they gave scope away.

I am tired of MIL guys showing with with their pensions and health bennies and not giving a damm about their fellow pilots who are trying to make it better for them. The MIL guys deserve their bennies, but they also are expected to support their fellow pilots in an effort to gain a fair and reasonable contract for themselves and their family. So use either one, just be fair and balanced and post these two replies on the issue.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Operational decision toward what end? If your only job is to fly from A to B safely why try to get out on time? Who cares about on time. Wouldn't it be more safe operationally to slow down the tempo? Why do you try to conserve fuel in cruise, why do you shut down engines during long taxi's. You are not operationally trying to conserve fuel most of the time so you don't run out of gas and crash. You are doing it to save money.

Why would I not get out on time? becaue you are trying to twist the intent from you being a managment bag humper willing to do anyone's job to me sticking within my job description and doing it professionally?

Its seems it quite a fantasy world you have set up for yourself, he who claims not to be a corporate tool yet works at corporation after corporation. "Not me, I don't care about making money for the company, everything I do is operational" Well you keep telling yourself whatever you want so you feel better about yourself. I won't try and shatter your illusion.

No you won't try and shatter my truth, but you sure are trying damm hard. Real hard. Don't you have a hobby. Do you like girls? Because I've I am not comfortable with a guy giving me so much attention that you have on this thread. It is creepy...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Back to the Socialistworker.org catchphrases again I see. Ah the toasty warm blanket of Herr Marx and Herr Engles feels so good.

Actually the reason why you are so rabid on this thread is because of the fundamental beliefs of yours that are being threatened. You've singled me out because it is easier to make me your enemy that deal with reality...

As I told you before you are part of the Strict Father model. The patriarch ruled your house and childhood. You were told what to do, when to do it, how do to it. If you were treated unfairly, imorally or amorally, it didn't matter... you were conditioned to be thankful for what you got and how you were treated. Naturally you joined the MIL because it was basically the same paradigm.

When you joined UAL you naturally sought out the patriarch in your new provider (dare I say master) and settled in with management taking over from the MIL, telling you what, where, when, how, and why.. and that you will like it. The classic fraternity hazing scene where the Kevin Bacon character is in pain and says "thank you sir may I have another" comes to mind.

Organized Air Line pilots...or ALPA.... the Spirit pilots in this case, are bucking the Strict Patriarch model that you constantly seek out as your security blanket. It fundamentally goes against your grain.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Originally Posted by Rez O. Lewshun
Mainline United pilots got what they deserved.

Retired military pilots are responsible for driving down wages.

Holy Cow Rez,
Do you have an honest bone in your body? I should blame myself for not keeping up on every thread perhaps, but here you are treating me like some lone voice in the wilderness, and there are plenty of people that have problems with ALPA on FI. Whole threads outlining many of the same problems I have, and numerous other concerns I never mentioned from posters like Be Careful, Joe Merchant, Turtle 21, Jester, CopilotDoug and B. Franklin to name a few.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=115683

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=120405

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=109433

And low and behold what do I find? There you are on those threads with the insults, blame shifting, and talking about democracy as if the only kind of democracy is your kind of democracy. It appears you also have some problem sort of problem USAPA which was good for a chuckle and showed your immaturity with a bunch of childish "my union is better than your union" nonsense.


So its not about pilots and labor and representation really, its all about making ALPA look good. Well I am glad I know what you are all about now. I had hoped that maybe you were just a liar about politics, like it was a game or something, but obviously you seek to degrade ANYONE who disagrees with you about ANYTHING. If you have anything to do with ALPA you should bow out because you are not playing it straight. You have lost sight of what you are doing when your sole purpose has become to protect the organization. You are demonizing and marginalizing your brothers and solely to make the organization look good.

You are very misguided, recognizing mistakes, and addressing the concerns of the minority does not weaken democracy, it makes it stronger.

Fail. First off, you are creeping me out. Stand down. I like girls. I hope you do to. Those guys are haters that offfer no solutions. I am still waiting for your ALPA improvement plan. Let's hear it... let's see what you got...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Add to the above a dislike for the APA too.

There are two problems concerning the APA. One they stink as an effective union. Two, ALPA has done a poor job bringing them back.

Rez looking back on your old posts concerning ALPA is fascinating.

I've officially become your nemesis. Dude, let it go....

You are like the Josef Goebbels of ALPA the way you foam at the mouth and attack fellow ALPA pilots if they speak out. Not to mention pilots from other unions. It seems I am far from alone in thinking ALPA has problems, lots of them. Why are you so desperate to maintain the status quo?

John Pennekamp calls you "ALPA's biggest cheerleader" in the "What has ALAP done for me lately" thread. I think he underestimated, you are ALPA's Propaganda Minister (unsolicited I might add).

As I said... you don't have to be smart, intelligent or pragmatic to speak. You are assuming that what people have said about ALPA was smart, intelligent or pragmatic. For if it was, it would gain an audience.

So simply put, is you are insisting that stupid be given a platform for change.

For me this one took the cake. I can't believe you said this to a FedEX guy nonetheless, given the way you get all over people when they say "if you don't like where you are working, no one is forcing you to stay there". I guess your hypocrisy is boundless and your ethics are situational.

So is your advice to Spirit guys now going to be "No one is forcing you to stay there, leave if you don't like it" :laugh:


Originally Posted by Rez O. Lewshun

You seem to have trouble grasping the concept of choice and free will.

No one forced you to accept employment at FX. and through all the changes at FX, (Flying Tigers, ALPA, FPA, ALPA) no one forced you to stay.

Yet, you seem to have issues with others...for the choices you made.


http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=108006&page=8

You'll have to post what he said. How much time did you spend searching my old posts? Did you know there are lots of naked girls on the Internet that want to show you something?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

This is called ego preservation....

Gentlemen,
I gave you my concerns, offered what I thought would some workable solutions, and patiently waded through a lot of insults.

No, no one really agreed with you. Time for self reflection?

Is it possible that you are wrong? Note I said possible not even probable

Many of my comments about the problems ALPA has are nothing new to FI, but as usual there are a few posters on here always quick to shout others down should they question the status quo. Maybe you don't agree with anything I said, but hopefully at least it has given some of you pause or made you think.

So now you are taking the high road with statesman like tone...

Look, identifying the problems of ALPA are easy.... it is the solutions! What solutions have you?

Those who constantly speak of the problems and offer no solutions or the deisre to work within the framework are obstructionist. It effects my paycheck.

Some poster named Joe Merchant has a very appropriate tag, it says:

ALPA: To many Rez O. Lewshuns, not enough leaders.

Pitching your tent in Joey's camp is not going to gain you much. So much for the high road..

To me nothing could be truer. Part of the problem we all have is with ALPA's leadership. There are to many guys like Rez O. Lewshun who will pretty much question your humanity if you speak against ALPA.

Oh the Humanity!!!!!!

Hopefully his kind is a dying breed or maybe they are just the most vocal, I don't know, but I do know ALPA needs more guys like Lear 70, willing to critically analyze our mistakes and offer solutions, or UAL Driver who's posts you may have seen in other threads.

So it went from your confident posts, to democracy was threatened and now its your humanity. Are you ok?

Anyway I have said all I needed to say and find I am just repeating myself.

no, you are beaten. You are a management stooge and your are trying to appeal to other posters sense of empathy and compassion for you all while you trash me.... it is embarrassing.

For Mike O. and the rest of the Spirit guys,

For the love of god man, kill your screen name, pay the $10 and start anew.... this is embarrassingly pathetic....

I pray to God I am totally wrong and your MEC has everything under control and is acting in good faith.

You are wrong, way before you pray to god. Good god man.....

I wish you the best and hope you will come back in a few months and say "I told you so, management backed down and gave us what we wanted".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipVO3ZnrzWk

 

[DonVerita]

Originally Posted by AirCobra
"I had a grievence filed against me by the IAM for taking a bag off the jetway and bringing it downstairs. How is that for experience?"

After reading this, I would think you would have had enough experience NOT to touch that bag in the first place. Let's paint a vision of how this could go...

Here comes AirCobra trying to "help out" by bringing a bag from the jetway down the steps to the ramp. If Management had enough personnel to work the flight, this would never had happened, but Management understaffs the airline to make the numbers look good for their main objective - their bonuses.

First mistake: That's not your job just as you wouldn't like it if some ramper came up to the flight deck and attempted to pre-flight the aircraft if you were running late so that your company could get the all-so-important On Time departure.

As AirCobra is walking down the jetway steps with the bag he is not supposed to be carrying...he slips, falls down the rest of the steps and incurs an injury, an OJI to be exact. He goes to the hospital and then calls Management to report it assuming that Management will take care of him.

Second Mistake: Management replies: sorry AirCobra, that does not qualify as an OJI because you were doing something "outside of your job description". So sorry. Have a nice day.

I don't know what plane of existance you live on at your company, but THIS is what happens in the real world.