If Warren sells NJA, is that a good thing?

[gutshotdraw]

Bud, what you continue to erroneously call "coercion," most would call solidarity and unity of purpose.

As you well know, I'm no great fan of many aspects of our union. Most notably past leadership's tone deafness and hubris.

Nevertheless, I believe the current leadership to be on the right path and our current President is striking exactly the right balance of professionalism and aggressiveness. Once again I suggest you honestly reassess your mindset on a whole host of these issues.

 

[G4dude]

Again you don't like conflict and are willing to accept less because of it. Got it.

What happens when you have conflict for a writeup?
What happens when you have conflict due to a contract issue?
What happens when you have conflict due to fatigue?

I hope your avoidance of conflict doesn't put anyone at risk.

I haven't had any issues with those things, and haven't heard of them from anybody I have flown with, so I'm not sure the stories are true. Maybe they are. Gutshotdraw has strong opinions on this, maybe he will email me on the iPhone with them. I believe him.

 

[G4dude]

Bud, what you continue to erroneously call "coercion," most would call solidarity and unity of purpose.

As you well know, I'm no great fan of many aspects of our union. Most notably past leadership's tone deafness and hubris.

Nevertheless, I believe the current leadership to be on the right path and our current President is striking exactly the right balance of professionalism and aggressiveness. Once again I suggest you honestly reassess your mindset on a whole host of these issues.

I am, that is mainly why I'm on this site. And for the flattering remarks from Brokeflyer and Helmsalee.

 

[Helmsalee]

G4, I am not trying to insult you. I just have a hard time accepting that you really are that naive.
Helm

 

[G4dude]

G4, I am not trying to insult you. I just have a hard time accepting that you really are that naive.
Helm

I was raised in an anti union household, and spent my entire career in non union shops, even my nonpilot jobs. The union stories I was told as I grew older were bad ones from former union members from Pan Am, Eastern, a Railroad Union, and a worker in a factory in the Midwest. Given all that, it would be surprising if I had turned out pro union. You and I see the same issues, but have different solutions. We want the same things. I'm just not willing, with all due respect, to try to coerce anyone into doing what I want them to do. Union people are not like that, and I think it is a shame.

 

[Diesel]

I was raised in an anti union household, and spent my entire career in non union shops, even my nonpilot jobs. The union stories I was told as I grew older were bad ones from former union members from Pan Am, Eastern, a Railroad Union, and a worker in a factory in the Midwest. Given all that, it would be surprising if I had turned out pro union. You and I see the same issues, but have different solutions. We want the same things. I'm just not willing, with all due respect, to try to coerce anyone into doing what I want them to do. Union people are not like that, and I think it is a shame.

Hate to tell you but your enjoying the union protection and benefits now. If you really had an anti union hatred you would be a fees payer instead of a dues payer.

In reality though you want your cake and eat it to. You want to tell your friends that your anti union while still enjoying the benefits. This way if it all goes wrong you can say see I was right. When we get a better contract then you can say "see I'm in the union".

In reality you aren't doing a single thing to help any of your union brothers.

Please regale us with tales of how you're helping to wrap up the contract and give our negotiators the ability to bargain from a position of power versus weakness.

 

[G4dude]

Hate to tell you but your enjoying the union protection and benefits now. If you really had an anti union hatred you would be a fees payer instead of a dues payer.

In reality though you want your cake and eat it to. You want to tell your friends that your anti union while still enjoying the benefits. This way if it all goes wrong you can say see I was right. When we get a better contract then you can say "see I'm in the union".

In reality you aren't doing a single thing to help any of your union brothers.

Please regale us with tales of how you're helping to wrap up the contract and give our negotiators the ability to bargain from a position of power versus weakness.

I want the same things my union "brothers" want, but I disagree with them about how to achieve them. Your bitter mocking tone is why unionism is so difficult to subscribe to, Diesel. As for my plan, I believe the cost and disruption to the company of a failed negotiation process, plus the looming pilot shortage, plus people like me being willing to quit if the contract is a bad deal, plus (yep!) the THREAT of a strike will be enough for the deal to be OK for us when negotiations conclude. All without the embarrass Warren campaign and the informational pickets. Both of these tactics will backfire, in my opinion. Is it OK to have an opinion about tactics? Or should I consult you first? Sorry, a little bitterness crept in there.

 

[Diesel]

I want the same things my union "brothers" want, but I disagree with them about how to achieve them. Your bitter mocking tone is why unionism is so difficult to subscribe to, Diesel. As for my plan, I believe the cost and disruption to the company of a failed negotiation process, plus the looming pilot shortage, plus people like me being willing to quit if the contract is a bad deal, plus (yep!) the THREAT of a strike will be enough for the deal to be OK for us when negotiations conclude. All without the embarrass Warren campaign and the informational pickets. Both of these tactics will backfire, in my opinion. Is it OK to have an opinion about tactics? Or should I consult you first? Sorry, a little bitterness crept in there.

It isn't bitterness. We are arguing with someone that has no experience in a Union yet thinks this is how it "should go". Problem is the lack of experience means that those ideas have no basis.

You think a threat is enough for a strike? You said you won't strike. Oh thats right you will if you feel like the deal is good enough. Good so now the company needs 50% +1.

Do you think Warren is some grandfatherly guy that gives a crap about you? Do you think he wonders what G4Dude is doing at night?

Seriously please increase the lumbar support in your chair.

 

[G4dude]

It isn't bitterness. We are arguing with someone that has no experience in a Union yet thinks this is how it "should go". Problem is the lack of experience means that those ideas have no basis.

You think a threat is enough for a strike? You said you won't strike. Oh thats right you will if you feel like the deal is good enough. Good so now the company needs 50% +1.

Do you think Warren is some grandfatherly guy that gives a crap about you? Do you think he wonders what G4Dude is doing at night?

Seriously please increase the lumbar support in your chair.

I don't expect Warren to "care" about me. if he wants me to fly his planes, he will give us a good deal. Who cares whether he 'cares" about us?

 

[Diesel]

I don't expect Warren to "care" about me. if he wants me to fly his planes, he will give us a good deal. Who cares whether he 'cares" about us?

Explain to me why warren will just give us a good deal?

What is in it for him.

Why don't you understand that this is war? 2 years and we haven't moved an inch towards getting a contract done. Enough is enough.

Maybe you're happy making captains pay which is more than the rest of netjets but i'm not happy being pay capped for the last 5 years. Not even a COLA increase.

We all understand why you don't want to rock the boat. The reality is though we are in a union and the Majority decides.

 

[gutshotdraw]

I was raised in an anti union household, and spent my entire career in non union shops, even my nonpilot jobs. The union stories I was told as I grew older were bad ones from former union members from Pan Am, Eastern, a Railroad Union, and a worker in a factory in the Midwest. Given all that, it would be surprising if I had turned out pro union. You and I see the same issues, but have different solutions. We want the same things. I'm just not willing, with all due respect, to try to coerce anyone into doing what I want them to do. Union people are not like that, and I think it is a shame.

I was raised in much the same environment. White collar, suburban, conservative, and fully invested in the notion that business leaders wear the white hats and unions are the harbinger of doom for a company.

And then I lived through Doug Steenland and what he did to my wife's career at Northwest. That knucklehead cost the company more in two weeks by driving the pilots to a strike than the pilot's contract demands would have cost over the ENTIRE TERM of the contract. The management idiocy exhibited by that man was beyond description.

I didn't think it possible, but Jordan Hansel is a WORSE CEO than Doug Steenland.

They are both poster children for all that has become wrong with corporate America. Instead of job creating, community building, service providing members of society, many corporations have become penny pinching, employee destroying, ethics ignoring monoliths.

Like it or not, the only thing preventing the wholesale ruination of your career and mine at NetJets is a UNION. If left unchecked, Hansel and Berkshire would turn, and in many ways already have, a good career into a crappy job. The UNION is the best way to stop that. The sooner you embrace that reality, the better.

And trust me, picketing, placing ads in the WSJ, and ESPECIALLY picketing Omaha this year are ABSOLUTELY the RIGHT things to be doing now. It's WORKING. The management briefing portion of Day 1 recurrent made that patently obvious.

 

[G4dude]

I was raised in much the same environment. White collar, suburban, conservative, and fully invested in the notion that business leaders wear the white hats and unions are the harbinger of doom for a company.

And then I lived through Doug Steenland and what he did to my wife's career at Northwest. That knucklehead cost the company more in two weeks by driving the pilots to a strike than the pilot's contract demands would have cost over the ENTIRE TERM of the contract. The management idiocy exhibited by that man was beyond description.

I didn't think it possible, but Jordan Hansel is a WORSE CEO than Doug Steenland.

They are both poster children for all that has become wrong with corporate America. Instead of job creating, community building, service providing members of society, many corporations have become penny pinching, employee destroying, ethics ignoring monoliths.

Like it or not, the only thing preventing the wholesale ruination of your career and mine at NetJets is a UNION. If left unchecked, Hansel and Berkshire would turn, and in many ways already have, a good career into a crappy job. The UNION is the best way to stop that. The sooner you embrace that reality, the better.

And trust me, picketing, placing ads in the WSJ, and ESPECIALLY picketing Omaha this year are ABSOLUTELY the RIGHT things to be doing now. It's WORKING. The management briefing portion of Day 1 recurrent made that patently obvious.

I'm very glad it's working.

 

[Diesel]

I'm very glad it's working.

What are YOU doing to support it?

 

[G4dude]

What are YOU doing to support it?

Paying dues, staying out of the way, and trying to ignore the obnoxiousness of your posts.

 

[Diesel]

Paying dues, staying out of the way, and trying to ignore the obnoxiousness of your posts.

Wow we are sure to get a contract tomorrow.

Thanks for all the support.