If Warren sells NJA, is that a good thing?

[G4dude]

1) NetJets was NEVER in danger of folding the tent, even at the absolute bottom of the downturn. The potential civil liability for the Breach of Contract class action lawsuit ran into the multi-BILLIONS. It was WAY cheaper for Berkshire to throw a couple billion dollars at the operation (since paid back, WITH interest) rather than face a courtroom full of lawyers and a jury that LOVES to mine a deep pocket.

2) NetJets IS wildly profitable based on RETURN ON INVESTED CAPITAL. NO aviation business ever posts big numbers on RETURN ON REVENUE which is what the EMG and BH are demanding. 4% Is HUGE in this business. BH has roughly a billion dollars presently invested in NetJets. Last year's profit was north of $225 million. That is an AWESOME return on invested capital which is the TRUE measure of the success of an investment. Not to mention the contributions NJ makes to the bottom line of BH's FlightSafety subsidiary and whichever BH insurance company covers our airplanes.

Uncle Warren and the rest of the EMT rely on the economic ignorance of many of its employees in order to shape the argument to their advantage.

Au contraire, my fine golfing friend. 4 percent is not huge for businesses in general, actually it is tepid, and after years of losses. If I were WB, NJA would be someone else's headache. And Flight Safety would probably be the trainer for NJA owned by another entity, so that benefit is illusory, in my HUMBLE opinion.
I was in your neighborhood last week, but didn't have time to call. Cheers!

 

[G4dude]

There is a lot more to the story as why WB and BH opted to guarantee the returning of assets. There were three offers on the table to purchase the aviation investment of BH (NetJets & Flight Safety). The other three offers had an immense amount of aviation knowledge and expertise.

At the end of the day, it was a strategic business decision. BH received a good return on the loan amount. WB mind set is "Buy when prices are low, sell when prices are high". The combined ROI from the loan, operational profitability, and sales of airframes has given BH an ROI of over 60% based on the original purchase price.

Now THIS is an interesting post. I would love to hear more about these other offers; what else do you know and do you have any more thoughts?

 

[G4dude]

The company sure seems to have you hook, line, and sinker.

I have had a great time at NJA. So have my colleagues in the GV. I know life is harder in the smaller planes, thanks mainly to y'all on this site. But this is the best job I ever had or ever heard of, except for a few great corporate departments and maybe Delta. Although airline flying with the monotony and constant snarling about the contract and commuting would get pretty old. I kissed a lot of frogs, and NJA is where I belong, but it is not perfect. What IS perfect in this world, besides a hot plate of Chicken Tikka Masala and Pelak Paneer with garlic naan? Or bbq ribs with corn and mashed taters?
As for the smaller plane pilots, I feel you have not realized what other jobs are like in comparison to yours. However, the company could treat you better, and I fervently hope it does in the near future.

 

[G4dude]

Is g4 a scab? G4 are you a scab?

Nope. This is my first union company. I don't know what I will do if y'all strike. The thought makes me ill. I want better working conditions and pay for you, but I feel striking is the wrong way to go, for moral and practical reasons. This does NOT mean I don't care about the problems we face, it is just a difference of opinion about what to do about it and the severity of it in comparison to other companies.
If I cross the picket line, I won't be mad at the strikers for trying to shut down my employer, not one bit. But the strikers will be mad at ME for the rest of my life for continuing to go to work. Doesn't seem right to me.
But I REALLY hope a strike doesn't happen. I don't know what I would do.

 

[G4dude]

Gutshots, scabs are like evangelicals. They pretend to listen to you, but while you speak they go into a trance and pray for your soul. They actually hear nothing you say.

He's a scab, and they only see what's best for themselves. It's time to marginalize anything he and his ilk espouse.

He doesn't like me! He really doesn't like me! Mommy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[gunfyter]

Au contraire, my fine golfing friend. 4 percent is not huge for businesses in general, actually it is tepid, and after years of losses.

What is American Express Return on Revenue?

"The average discount rate charged by American Express is 2.5% of the transaction amount involved, whereas banks issuing Visa and MasterCard generally charge less than 2%."


We are doing better than AMEX.


We are a Bank... not an Airline.

A bank is a Warehouse where people store their money.

Instead of Money people store their airplanes in our warehouse. They pay the expenses of warehousing their planes and we take 4%. PER MONTH.

Roughly 50% per year!

 

[imacdog]

I have had a great time at NJA. So have my colleagues in the GV. I know life is harder in the smaller planes, thanks mainly to y'all on this site. But this is the best job I ever had or ever heard of, except for a few great corporate departments and maybe Delta. Although airline flying with the monotony and constant snarling about the contract and commuting would get pretty old. I kissed a lot of frogs, and NJA is where I belong, but it is not perfect. What IS perfect in this world, besides a hot plate of Chicken Tikka Masala and Pelak Paneer with garlic naan? Or bbq ribs with corn and mashed taters?
As for the smaller plane pilots, I feel you have not realized what other jobs are like in comparison to yours. However, the company could treat you better, and I fervently hope it does in the near future.

I was furloughed so don't lecture me about perspective. That doesn't mean that I believe the company's sob story about needing concessions off the backs of labor.

 

[Pervis]

We provide a service for BH. ROI is icing on the cake. I bet we provide nearly $100 million annually in revenue to Flight Safety, BH insurance companies, get BH companies to and from the really big deals in a timely manner, and gather corporate Intel on non BH companies simply by seeing their travel habits. And don't forget the tax deductions for all those companies that use NJA for their travel needs. Those intangibles are far more valuable than the goal for ROI BH seeks from everyone else. That's why he won't sell us.

 

[G4dude]

We provide a service for BH. ROI is icing on the cake. I bet we provide nearly $100 million annually in revenue to Flight Safety, BH insurance companies, get BH companies to and from the really big deals in a timely manner, and gather corporate Intel on non BH companies simply by seeing their travel habits. And don't forget the tax deductions for all those companies that use NJA for their travel needs. Those intangibles are far more valuable than the goal for ROI BH seeks from everyone else. That's why he won't sell us.

If you and Gutshot are right, this is good news for worriers like me!

 

[G4dude]

I was furloughed so don't lecture me about perspective. That doesn't mean that I believe the company's sob story about needing concessions off the backs of labor.

The concessions are just a negotiating tactic. They want to pay us less, we want to make more. Happens every time negotiations take place.

 

[imacdog]

Yep, and you're not onboard with us in our fight.

 

[G4dude]

Yep, and you're not onboard with us in our fight.

I am edging in your direction, actually, to my surprise. Maybe I worry too much about what the company can afford. I still think the "embarass Warren" campaign is a bad idea.

 

[T-1GUY]

So what is the revenue that Flightsafety earns from Netjets. First and foremost we will never know the true number, because it is a way to shift expenses and reduce profits at The union shop. That aside, if ten percent of the pilots go through an initial every year, that would be 270 initials plus 270 recurrents for those pilots. The remaining 90% attend two recurrents per year. 90% times 2700 times 2 = 4860 plus 270 = 5130 recurrents a year. I dont know what a recurrent or initial cost, but i'll be conservative.

5130 x 10,000 = $51,300,000

270 x 30000 = $8.100,000

Annual revenue approaching approximately $60,000,000

Thats a big number.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Au contraire, my fine golfing friend. 4 percent is not huge for businesses in general, actually it is tepid, and after years of losses. If I were WB, NJA would be someone else's headache. And Flight Safety would probably be the trainer for NJA owned by another entity, so that benefit is illusory, in my HUMBLE opinion.
I was in your neighborhood last week, but didn't have time to call. Cheers!

Do you understand the difference between return on REVENUE and return on INVESTED CAPITAL?

Look at return on REVENUE at ANY airline. They do backflips in the hallways in Dallas, Chicago, and Atlanta when ROR hits 3%. Demanding 4-6% ROR in the aviation world is like demanding an ex-wife has to pay alimony to YOU.

AIN'T. GONNA. HAPPEN.

But if you gave your stockbroker $1000 on January 1st and he cut you a check for $1,225 on December 31st, you'd probably whistle a lively tune all the way to the bank. THAT is roughly the rate of return on INVESTED CAPITAL that NetJets earned BH in 2013.

And if we were sold (Also, AIN'T. GONNA. HAPPEN.), one of the first phone calls would probably be to SimuFlite so, yeah, NJ is a substantial contributor to BH via FSI that affects the decision making process.

 

[gutshotdraw]

So what is the revenue that Flightsafety earns from Netjets. First and foremost we will never know the true number, because it is a way to shift expenses and reduce profits at The union shop. That aside, if ten percent of the pilots go through an initial every year, that would be 270 initials plus 270 recurrents for those pilots. The remaining 90% attend two recurrents per year. 90% times 2700 times 2 = 4860 plus 270 = 5130 recurrents a year. I dont know what a recurrent or initial cost, but i'll be conservative.

5130 x 10,000 = $51,300,000

270 x 30000 = $8.100,000

Annual revenue approaching approximately $60,000,000

Thats a big number.

Retail on a Gulfstream V recurrent is almost TRIPLE your estimate and initials about double. Can't say about the other fleets. But you can bet your a$$ we pay retail. So your number is VERY conservative.