If Warren sells NJA, is that a good thing?

[G4dude]

Funding the Chinese operation, no doubt.

Now THAT operation is gonna be interesting to watch.

 

[Sky Captain]

Yes you would called a scab just like the guys who crossed the picket line at CAL and who worked for CAL the rest of their lives where they were then accepted into the ALPA union of which they had crossed the picket line.

You aren't representing this situation in the realms of reality. The SCABS weren't welcomed with open arms and everyone singing love songs to each other. SCABS are always treated with contempt and skepticism. They must have company mail boxes with aliases bc of the continuous notes left reminding them of who they are and what they did. They have to bid lines with other SCABS so they will have someone to talk to in the cockpit. Their children and other relatives (if discovered) are also forever tarnished bc of their name on the continuously updated SCAB list. (Sins of the father DO get passed on to the son in this case). Pilot interviewers do access the list behind closed doors.

This all pales to what SCABS must endure during the actual strike. G4- you continue to post based on your beliefs instead of with facts. You say you would cross a picket line then ask if you would forever be chastised for doing so. I suggest you get educated on the all too real facts that will forever follow you if you do choose to be a SCAB. Ask people who have actually lived or experienced a strike. Ask how things were for the picketers and SCABS during the strike. Also ask what their careers were like after the strike ended.

When the strike ends it is over for the picketer. But it lasts forever for the SCAB

 

[bluepost]

Striking is as much as part of a job at a union job as hotel stays are to a pilot job. If you're not willing to strike, go and get a straight corporate job. If you don't like hotels, or the possibility of a strike you're in the wrong job.

Sell, don't sell....ROI, profit or loss, don't care. Non of that affects my worth. If NJA can't pay me to fly twice as much as a corporate operator, or close to what an airline pays then why should I care who owns us or if NJA stays in business?

These aircraft won't be turned into aluminum cans if NJA is sold or gets shut down. Actually since NJA uses these aircraft much more than any corporate operator there could be an INCREASE in jobs and corporate demand, since the average corporate operator has trouble getting more than 400 hours per year per airframe.

What's that? NJA is shutting down? Oh well. See you all at the next gig. Maybe I'll make more, maybe I'll make less. Don't really care. I have a life and this job isn't it. Time to go make love to my wife and play with my kids.

 

[T-1GUY]

Bluepost gets it. Great post!!

 

[CRAWDADDY]

Please Warren....Sell us to someone with vision. You say we're worth less than what you paid for us in 98. Sell it for an honest price and let them fix that.

 

[G4dude]

You aren't representing this situation in the realms of reality. The SCABS weren't welcomed with open arms and everyone singing love songs to each other. SCABS are always treated with contempt and skepticism. They must have company mail boxes with aliases bc of the continuous notes left reminding them of who they are and what they did. They have to bid lines with other SCABS so they will have someone to talk to in the cockpit. Their children and other relatives (if discovered) are also forever tarnished bc of their name on the continuously updated SCAB list. (Sins of the father DO get passed on to the son in this case). Pilot interviewers do access the list behind closed doors.

This all pales to what SCABS must endure during the actual strike. G4- you continue to post based on your beliefs instead of with facts. You say you would cross a picket line then ask if you would forever be chastised for doing so. I suggest you get educated on the all too real facts that will forever follow you if you do choose to be a SCAB. Ask people who have actually lived or experienced a strike. Ask how things were for the picketers and SCABS during the strike. Also ask what their careers were like after the strike ended.

When the strike ends it is over for the picketer. But it lasts forever for the SCAB

Do you think that is a fair way to treat someone who continues to go to work?

 

[G4dude]

Striking is as much as part of a job at a union job as hotel stays are to a pilot job. If you're not willing to strike, go and get a straight corporate job. If you don't like hotels, or the possibility of a strike you're in the wrong job.

Sell, don't sell....ROI, profit or loss, don't care. Non of that affects my worth. If NJA can't pay me to fly twice as much as a corporate operator, or close to what an airline pays then why should I care who owns us or if NJA stays in business?

These aircraft won't be turned into aluminum cans if NJA is sold or gets shut down. Actually since NJA uses these aircraft much more than any corporate operator there could be an INCREASE in jobs and corporate demand, since the average corporate operator has trouble getting more than 400 hours per year per airframe.

What's that? NJA is shutting down? Oh well. See you all at the next gig. Maybe I'll make more, maybe I'll make less. Don't really care. I have a life and this job isn't it. Time to go make love to my wife and play with my kids.

...and of course, it's ALL about YOU.

 

[Diesel]

I am edging in your direction, actually, to my surprise. Maybe I worry too much about what the company can afford. I still think the "embarass Warren" campaign is a bad idea.

Why don't you grab your balls and make a decision. Get off the fence. Either join the fight or scurry away. Being on the fence is more embarrassing than actually saying your going to cross the line.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Why don't you grab your BALLS and make a decision. Get off the fence. Either join the fight or scurry away. Being on the fence is more embarrassing than actually saying your going to cross the line.

Diesel, he may want the feminine napkins that they will stuff in his mailbox.

 

[G4dude]

Why don't you grab your balls and make a decision. Get off the fence. Either join the fight or scurry away. Being on the fence is more embarrassing than actually saying your going to cross the line.

Union thugs crack me up.

 

[Diesel]

Union thugs crack me up.

Pilots with no self worth willing to take it in the ass crack me up.

 

[CMI]

Pilots with no self worth willing to take it in the ass crack me up.

Like the pilots that voted against the union at TM. Willing to let management blow smoke up their @$$, and work a $hitty schedule for a below industry wage.

 

[G4dude]

Pilots with no self worth willing to take it in the ass crack me up.

I have lots of self worth, and don't agree with the union guys about tactics and the use of coercion against each other and against the company. Screw you. I know who you are, Diesel, and I have never been impressed.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

I have lots of self worth, and don't agree with the union guys about tactics and the use of coercion against each other and against the company. Screw you. I know who you are, Diesel, and I have never been impressed.

Sounds like a threat from a company thug.

 

[Diesel]

I have lots of self worth, and don't agree with the union guys about tactics and the use of coercion against each other or against the company. Screw you. I know who you are, Diesel, and I have never been impressed.

Wow that must have been tough. EVERYONE knows who I am.

I know who you are to.

I'm not here to impress you. I'm here to get a better contract for my family. While guys like you ride the fence waiting for that white knight to come around the corner and fix all your problems for you. You don't want to commit to ANYTHING.

You will stay like that until you're finally screwed for the last time and then see the light. You'll start yelling and screaming how YOU were wronged and everyone around you is going to say the same thing. WE have all been wronged a long time. You're just figuring it out now. Late as I might add.

Don't worry continue to be that quite guy in the room but the loudest guy on an anonymous message board.

 

[G4dude]

Like the pilots that voted against the union at TM. Willing to let management blow smoke up their @$$, and work a $hitty schedule for a below industry wage.

Just like people on the political left, you feel I don't care if I don't endorse your tactics. I don't like what the union does? Must be because I don't care about pilots making enough money. Hilarious. And then, you approve of the practice of shunning and abusing someone who goes to work instead of doing what YOU want during a strike. Shame on you union goons. Acting like the Neanderthals in the mineworkers unions. By the way. I haven't decided to cross. You have the right to try to shut my employer down, and I would never act in an unfriendly fashion towards you, but you would mistreat me for not going along with you, while convincing yourself that I don't care about my pay and working conditions. Pretty funny and tragic stuff, pathetic really.

 

[Helmsalee]

"Do you think that is a fair way to treat someone who continues to go to work?"


In a word, yes.

 

[G4dude]

"Do you think that is a fair way to treat someone who continues to go to work?"


In a word, yes.

Shame on you.

 

[imacdog]

The shame is what those who cross a picket line will get to deal with for the rest of their career. There are very few absolutes in what makes a good career, but respecting a picket line is one of them.

 

[G4dude]

The shame is what those who cross a picket line will get to deal with for the rest of their career. There are very few absolutes in what makes a good career, but respecting a picket line is one of them.

I would never try to force you to do anything, but you want to force me to honor a picket line. Shame on you too.

 

[gutshotdraw]

I would never try to force you to do anything, but you want to force me to honor a picket line. Shame on you too.

As your friend, all I can tell you is, if it comes to a strike, you would be better served to honor the line. You don't want to live with what comes after being labeled a scab.

I say that with genuine concern for YOU. Not as some kind of implied threat. It's just one of the facts of life working in a union environment. You may not like it or agree with it but you're not going to change it. Just consider it a brief vacation and don't give it another thought.

 

[CA1900]

I would never try to force you to do anything, but you want to force me to honor a picket line. Shame on you too.

You had the choice to apply to NetJets or not. It has been a union shop since long before you or I were ever employed here. The fact that you initially took a position with a non-union alter-ego (NJI) doesn't change that.

 

[G4dude]

As your friend, all I can tell you is, if it comes to a strike, you would be better served to honor the line. You don't want to live with what comes after being labeled a scab.

I say that with genuine concern for YOU. Not as some kind of implied threat. It's just one of the facts of life working in a union environment. You may not like it or agree with it but you're not going to change it. Just consider it a brief vacation and don't give it another thought.

I appreciate that, and those are words of wisdom. I am just trying to point out that, although it is the way of unions, it is shameful behavior, to mistreat someone who genuinely has a different opinion and does not think striking is the right and moral thing to do. And recognition that a guy like me would never hold hard feelings towards people who DO strike, even though I disagree with them. See? Coercion is wrong. By the way, some people might have real reasons why they have to cross, who have no choice. Coercion is wrong, especially when practiced by supposedly intelligent and logical people who usually, BTW, vote Republican. I will probably honor a picket line, but it will be from fear of reprisals by my "colleagues". And shame on them.

 

[G4dude]

You had the choice to apply to NetJets or not. It has been a union shop since long before you or I were ever employed here. The fact that you initially took a position with a non-union alter-ego (NJI) doesn't change that.

You are correct, but that doesn't address what I am talking about. Please read my previous post to my friend Gutshotdraw.

 

[gutshotdraw]

I understand your distaste for what you call coercion. But think of it a different way.

We really do face a difficult battle in protecting and enhancing our careers against the management of our company. If you have read the statements and "offers" by JH, it should be clear by now that he cares nothing for you or your family and only in meeting his marching orders from Omaha.

That isn't a negotiating position. It's what he REALLY thinks we are worth. Lower pay. Fewer vacation and PTO days. Higher health care "contributions." Involuntary assignment of more workdays in a month. No adjustments for inflation moving forward.

It really ISN'T the yin and yang of "shoot for the stars and settle for the moon."

And the only way to meet the threat against our career is to stand up TOGETHER. It is the best thing for the ENTIRE group.

I urge you to look more closely at the company's statements regarding negotiations. Read each one with a more critical eye and with a more dispassionate and open-minded point of view. Reassess your belief system and your conclusions about the entire process.

I have. And that's why I'll be in Omaha the first weekend in May.

 

[G4dude]

I understand your distaste for what you call coercion. But think of it a different way.

We really do face a difficult battle in protecting and enhancing our careers against the management of our company. If you have read the statements and "offers" by JH, it should be clear by now that he cares nothing for you or your family and only in meeting his marching orders from Omaha.

That isn't a negotiating position. It's what he REALLY thinks we are worth. Lower pay. Fewer vacation and PTO days. Higher health care "contributions." Involuntary assignment of more workdays in a month. No adjustments for inflation moving forward.

It really ISN'T the yin and yang of "shoot for the stars and settle for the moon."

And the only way to meet the threat against our career is to stand up TOGETHER. It is the best thing for the ENTIRE group.

I urge you to look more closely at the company's statements regarding negotiations. Read each one with a more critical eye and with a more dispassionate and open-minded point of view. Reassess your belief system and your conclusions about the entire process.

I have. And that's why I'll be in Omaha the first weekend in May.

Ladies and gentleman, this is how to post. Very persuasive and not insulting or threatening. if everyone in the union were like you, the process would be much better.

 

[imacdog]

We have been saying this all along. You're just too stupid to comprehend it.

 

[G4dude]

I understand your distaste for what you call coercion. But think of it a different way.

We really do face a difficult battle in protecting and enhancing our careers against the management of our company. If you have read the statements and "offers" by JH, it should be clear by now that he cares nothing for you or your family and only in meeting his marching orders from Omaha.

That isn't a negotiating position. It's what he REALLY thinks we are worth. Lower pay. Fewer vacation and PTO days. Higher health care "contributions." Involuntary assignment of more workdays in a month. No adjustments for inflation moving forward.

It really ISN'T the yin and yang of "shoot for the stars and settle for the moon."

And the only way to meet the threat against our career is to stand up TOGETHER. It is the best thing for the ENTIRE group.

I urge you to look more closely at the company's statements regarding negotiations. Read each one with a more critical eye and with a more dispassionate and open-minded point of view. Reassess your belief system and your conclusions about the entire process.

I have. And that's why I'll be in Omaha the first weekend in May.

One thing. I don't give a HOOT if Jordan cares about me. I only care what we are paid and what our working conditions are. And if I enjoy working here. Jordan, if you are reading this, you better do us right or I will leave and do something else. I will only stay at NJA if I like the deal you give us.

 

[gutshotdraw]

One thing. I don't give a HOOT if Jordan cares about me. I only care what we are paid and what our working conditions are. And if I enjoy working here. Jordan, if you are reading this, you better do us right or I will leave and do something else. I will only stay at NJA if I like the deal you give us.

Then update the logbook and polish the resume amigo. If JH is still here a year from now, we're screwed no matter what kind of deal we make.

 

[G4dude]

Then update the logbook and polish the resume amigo. If JH is still here a year from now, we're screwed no matter what kind of deal we make.

I don't think he would be able to replace us if we strike. Or leave.