If everyone hates their airline why not quit

[Dirty Sanchez]

ok here is a little history im 35 did 9 years infantry US army, first flight july 2001. start training at TSA IN feb

I didn't know TSA was hiring. My understanding was all growth is going to Ho-Jets. How many seats does the plane you are going to fly have in the back?

 

[nonstop]

Oh yeah, if you are dead set on coming to the airlines, read up on this thread:

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=34614

We don't have the luxury of MRE's in the airlines.

 

[Diesel]

when is someone going to figure out...

This isn't the military.. Nobody cares what it was like to live in a tent and your schedule sucking.

This is civilian life. WE don't have to take orders.

 

[PHXFLYR]

You have not spent ONE DAY on the line at an airline yet. You have NO idea what you are talking about.

S.[/quote]



And neither have you ,Lindbergh......on BOTH counts!!


PHXFLYR

 

[no_desk_for_me]

Every body has a right to complain. I just don't like to hear it from a 250 hour total time person who bought thier way into the airlines. You have no clue what most other people went through to get here. As for what ever airline your at trust me there are worse. Things may not be great and trust me their not at mine but there are always worse places to be. I was at great lakes so I know for experience.

 

[jetfo]

OI812,
The biggest thing you will notice in training is the whinning from the peeps that have never been through the things you have. I've done both (military and 121) and I thought training was a breeze, while others truly faced the toughest thing they have ever done. It's all about perspective. On that note, you can't really have a discussion on a place like this with people who haven't seen things from your side of the fence. And about the sacrifices others mentioned....you have already far exceeded that so it will be cake. And if you could corner one of the people that bitch about their job on here all of the time and asked them what else they would rather be doing instead...they probably wouldnt be able to think of anything. A bitching pilot is a happy pilot...er..sort of.

Good luck in initial!

Give it up Ride and get over it! You're not the only one that has been through anything, and I am sure I didn't see you at War College. You have served your country and I respect that. But, this is a new game and you better learn the rules fast. And, certainly, as you are taught as a young officer in any branch, you better learn what's going on before you assert you authority, if you have any. Respect is earned by experience! Get some, and them we'll talk!

 

[jetfo]

According to you? A multimillion dollar retirement for a blue collar job? Are you insane? With the technology today, the money should go to the aircraft engineers. Much of your salary in this industry in this salary better be in the enjoyment of the flying.

Blue collar job??? Are you insane??? This used to be a proud profession. We carry the responsibility for hundreds of lives on every flight. I have an advanced degree and chose to fly because I love it, and, I know what it takes to be a professional pilot.
I am not intellectually arrogant, thinking that I am above my fellow airline pilots, many of whom have advanced degrees. What we have to know, and the skills and knowledge that we have to apply every day, equals any white collar job and has in the past, and should be considered and compensated at white collar/professional pay rates.
Since when have we come to believe that our knowledge and skills are at the level of blue collared workers. Not to disrespect that workforce.

 

[405]

Blue collar job??? Are you insane??? This used to be a proud profession. We carry the responsibility for hundreds of lives on every flight. I have an advanced degree and chose to fly because I love it, and, I know what it takes to be a professional pilot.
I am not intellectually arrogant, thinking that I am above my fellow airline pilots, many of whom have advanced degrees. What we have to know, and the skills and knowledge that we have to apply every day, equals any white collar job and has in the past, and should be considered and compensated at white collar/professional pay rates.
Since when have we come to believe that our knowledge and skills are at the level of blue collared workers. Not to disrespect that workforce.

I have one question.

What are pilots doing to improve any of the mentioned issues throughout this board? I read thread after thread of bitches and complaints but I rarely see anyone with a solution to any of the problems the regionals have.

It's just a question. Don't rip my head off and sh!t down my neck for asking.

 

[pipejockey]

I have one question.

What are pilots doing to improve any of the mentioned issues throughout this board? I read thread after thread of bitches and complaints but I rarely see anyone with a solution to any of the problems the regionals have.

It's just a question. Don't rip my head off and sh!t down my neck for asking.

Nothing, nada, zilch, 0!! Because airline pilots have no courage to do the right thing anymore. Look at the problems the TWU is causing in NYC. Can you Imagine the problems caused if all the airline pilots of the nation took a work action. I would LOVE to see what would happen if every airline pilot walked off the job until management at every airline agreed in good faith to remedy the problems we have. I know it's unrealistic, but it's my fantasy.

I believe ones salary and QOL should also be based upon ones importance to society. And as a group only 80,000 strong, we could bring air transport to its knees!! I realize I am starting to sound like a Klingon, and I like it!

 

[405]

I don't think the flying public really knows what pilots are paid. I would assume that they might care that a brand new regional FO (to them, a pilot up front flying the plane) makes $18-22K a year starting out. It just isn't right in my opinion and I'm not even a pilot.

All of you need to get together and do something. I don't have any idea what the solution is. You all need to figure that out for yourselves.

 

[Skaz]

I love flying, I hated flying for the company I was employed by, I told them I'm resigning, faxed my resignation letter and the next day get a termination letter in the mail.......now, trick question, did I resign or was I fired!

'spose it depends on who you ask

 

[check6]

No kidding. Big words from the kid on the outside looking in. My sched next month ends with 2 off, 4 on, 2 off, 4 on, 2 off, 4 on. Getting to and from work happens on my day off. That means I don't get a complete day off for the last 2/3rds of JAN.

Don't open your crack until you know what you're talking about.

S.

Whose fault is that but your own. Idiot.

 

[BoeingBaller]

i come on here often trying to find soom good info, but all i get is this place sux, they screw us over here, i work to hard.

i get the feeling these people havent worked a real day in there life. what did you expect you are low man suck it up.

if its that bad why ya doing it.

im not trying to really get a fight going but im curious why if ya dont like it do ya stay.

lets try to get back to what is forum is for and thats useful info not a place to cry. if ya need to cry go home to mom

I DID MOFO!!!!!!!

 

[Ride Orange]

JETFO,
No need to get hostile and disrespectful, you're the one after all posting that we all need to be professionals. Anyway, I never bashed anyone for not having a military background. I simply pointed out to him how the sh!t he has experienced would help him during training, and how others who do not have those experiences will never see his side of the argument, and vice versa of course. You still have to be a good pilot, and a sharp learner, but when the stress part of the equation is routine, you've got half the battle licked. All you have to do is study, practice, and learn. If you've never had a sustained, hi stress, hi tempo environment you've got an extra hurdle. The people I referred to as whinning during initial were people who were just leaving the nest, because to them, it was truly the hardest thing they had ever done. Thats not to say that everyone who has just been wheened from Mommy and Daddy's checkbook will break down, some people are just strong by nature regardless of their experiences and will do fine. I just think in his situation he is a little better prepared to deal with training, so long as he still has the piloting skills to go with it.

 

[Clyde]

A More Serious Question

i come on here often trying to find soom good info, but all i get is this place sux, they screw us over here, i work to hard.

i get the feeling these people havent worked a real day in there life. what did you expect you are low man suck it up.

if its that bad why ya doing it.

im not trying to really get a fight going but im curious why if ya dont like it do ya stay.

lets try to get back to what is forum is for and thats useful info not a place to cry. if ya need to cry go home to mom

Here is a question that I have been pondering, and this is sincere and not flame.

Why, in the post 9-11 era, do people still choose to spend a lot of time and money to go into this field?

When I started, it was the early 90's, and I was fortunate to have my credentials in order by the late 90's. I also understand that many people started or were well into their hours-building stage by 2001.

My question pertains more to the high-school kid who is getting ready to spend $90K at a "Harvard of the skies" college with hopes and dreams of flying for an airline. Unfortunately, the days as we used to know them are probably not going to be returning anytime soon.

I'm not just referring to regional airlines, because I realize that you guys are way underpaid for the amount of work that you do. But, there are many other flying jobs out there (such as some freight carriers) that pay little and keep their crews on the road for 25+ days at a time. It seems that is becoming more of the norm than the exception.

If someone enjoys flying and that is all they want to do, fine. But, there is an economical impact that one has to know about and be concerned with. If it were me, I would spend the money and study something with a brighter future, with regards to salary, work, and QOL. Flying can always be done on the side as a hobby, and then possibly made into a career.

What are the college counselors telling kids now, that an aviation education is the only way to an airline, and that the days of past will soon return?

Again, not flaming, just my $0.02 as an observer.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Nothing, nada, zilch, 0!! Because airline pilots have no courage to do the right thing anymore. Look at the problems the TWU is causing in NYC. Can you Imagine the problems caused if all the airline pilots of the nation took a work action. I would LOVE to see what would happen if every airline pilot walked off the job until management at every airline agreed in good faith to remedy the problems we have. I know it's unrealistic, but it's my fantasy.

I believe ones salary and QOL should also be based upon ones importance to society. And as a group only 80,000 strong, we could bring air transport to its knees!! I realize I am starting to sound like a Klingon, and I like it!

Nice thought but somehow I don't see some happy go lucky SWA pilot or JB pilot supporting our cause,should this scenario ever play out.


PHXFLYR

 

[T-prop]

The trick is, don't expect too much of this job/industry.

After sitting on the jumpseat of United, CAL, UPS, American and Air Wisconsin on a weekly basis for 18 months I have had the opportunity of being enlightened by people who have spent decades devoted to this industry.

Here is what I have observed and learned (which is obvious to insiders):
1). We have little to no control over our careers outside of: where we apply, how we fly, and providing feed-back to the union as to how things are goin' on the line.

2). We are a profession, however, we are a profession that is employed in mass quantities, therefore we well be treated as a massive group that costs the company a massive amount of money to pay and train regardless of the importance of services we render.

Meaning, that if someone is a unique asset to an organization they will be recognized as such via work-rules and paycheck. The sad fact is, that we are not unique assets. We are easily replaced with thousands below clammoring for the same job that are just as qualified. That will never change, especially if you take time to remember how we all got here.

3). Have a plan B. Diversify your skills/education.

4). It still beats the hell out of being stuffed in a cubicle 9-5 mon-fri, or cleaning out hog-pins with a pressure washer, or humpin' (that's hiking for you nasty, cake-eating civilians) with 80 lbs. on your back for 20 miles a day with a bloody crotch that has been rubbed raw, and not showering for 2 weeks at a time. . . oh, and getting shot at while your gf/wife is getting nailed by Jody and his pals back home.

Personally, I don't plan on upgrading until 2010 or after and I am even planning on possible a 30+ year career at eagle with questionable pay/QOL with a sliver of a chance of moving on to a major. While, going back to school, adding other ratings for fun, and keeping my eyes open for other careers/side businesses.

The trick is, don't go in wearing rose colored glasses with an understanding that the path of your career/pay/QOL is mostly out of your hands and directly correlates to the performance of the company/industry. Finally, enjoy the part that got you addicted in the first place.

 

[FN FAL]

...or humpin' (that's hiking for you nasty, cake-eating civilians) with 80 lbs. on your back for 20 miles a day with a bloody crotch that has been rubbed raw...

If you're 20 years old and your thighs bounce off of each other, you need to lay off the potato chips and beer.

 

[jetfo]

JETFO,
No need to get hostile and disrespectful, you're the one after all posting that we all need to be professionals. Anyway, I never bashed anyone for not having a military background. I simply pointed out to him how the sh!t he has experienced would help him during training, and how others who do not have those experiences will never see his side of the argument, and vice versa of course. You still have to be a good pilot, and a sharp learner, but when the stress part of the equation is routine, you've got half the battle licked. All you have to do is study, practice, and learn. If you've never had a sustained, hi stress, hi tempo environment you've got an extra hurdle. The people I referred to as whinning during initial were people who were just leaving the nest, because to them, it was truly the hardest thing they had ever done. Thats not to say that everyone who has just been wheened from Mommy and Daddy's checkbook will break down, some people are just strong by nature regardless of their experiences and will do fine. I just think in his situation he is a little better prepared to deal with training, so long as he still has the piloting skills to go with it.

I'll go along with that.

 

[COOPERVANE]

My .02

It is a matter of supply and demand as well as technologcal advancements.

During the first 50 years of airline flying, the aircraft were more complex. A small, highly skilled group of pilots, usually ex-military, manned these aircraft. They were valued by management for their skill and professionalism. As the airlines (and salaries) grew, so did advancements in technology that made the job of a pilot easier. Airspace, atc, gps, and autopilots have made it a relatively EASY job. If all is going well, a monkey could do it.

Management soon realized that a 21 year old kid, just glad to be in a jet would and could do it for $15,000/year. So from managements point of view, why make this a long term career? They don't need to offer high pay and benefits anymore!!!! Give it to the lowest bidder!! So what if the cumulative experience in the cockpit is around 3 years? We have pilot mills pumping out product at an ever increasing rate. Major airline flying will be 10% of domestic flying in 15 years.

Someone above said "I'm not going to Biatch, just building my time and then will move on" .......... TO WHERE? Everybody just KNOWS they will make it

Management would be HAPPY for you to burn out and leave after being dissillusioned. Plenty of fresh meat in line for cheaper!!

In an environment where we have RJ crews declairing an emergency for the loss of an FMS (it happened in NY airspace) and flaming out engines, where will the regionals be when the $hit truly starts hitting the fan on a regular basis as these aircraft age?

We'd better try and make our jobs better. There is no "major" at the end of the line for most. We let management do it to us. I don't have the answer, but at least I know the situation.